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1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle
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Bub
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Chainsaw Monday wrote:
56Cabrio wrote:
At the end of the day you have a great looking car and remember your Uncle every time you go for a cruise in it...


Amen to that!

Does no heater controls mean they were deleted at some point? Or did this car ever come without heat? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).


Look under that shifter base- trim. There MUST be the remnants of the heater controls next to the shifter. I see no heater boxes, so probably/ hopefully just removed the knob and screw assembly to fit that shifter trim.
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Chainsaw Monday
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Bub wrote:
Chainsaw Monday wrote:
56Cabrio wrote:
At the end of the day you have a great looking car and remember your Uncle every time you go for a cruise in it...


Amen to that!

Does no heater controls mean they were deleted at some point? Or did this car ever come without heat? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).


Look under that shifter base- trim. There MUST be the remnants of the heater controls next to the shifter. I see no heater boxes, so probably/ hopefully just removed the knob and screw assembly to fit that shifter trim.


Thanks, I'll pull the boot away and have a look underneath. In the meantime, here are some pics of the engine.


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I was also able to get the 36mm nut off the axle on both sides, here's the driver's side assembly. The wheel cylinder indeed only has one bolt, not two. I noticed on the back plate there is no hole to make brake adjustments. Not sure if that means anything.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The passenger side drum is stuck on there good, I've given it some healthy strikes with a rubber mallet, with no luck. Any tricks as to how to get that bad boy to pop off? The driver's side came off with a good tug.
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Brake adjustments are done through the larger hole in the outside of the brake drum. You can see the hole in the pic you posted above.

I adjusted mine that way two days ago.
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Chainsaw Monday
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Brake adjustments are done through the larger hole in the outside of the brake drum. You can see the hole in the pic you posted above.

I adjusted mine that way two days ago.


Doh', silly me. Thanks! The driver's side is completely seized, I'll spray passenger side with some PB and hope I'm able to adjust after that. I'm hoping the shoes just need adjusted in, although I am able to rotate the drum by hand already.

Can anyone confirm the year(s) wheel cylinder and general brake rebuild kit I should look for here? The car is a 56, however a few of you suggested the brakes look to be 58' - 67'?
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esde
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Those with the double lip drums are 58 to 64.
so it appears that you have a later (61-68 ) style transmission case, that is using early (up to 57) axle tubes, short axles, and 58-64 rear brakes and bearing retainers.
Just as I was about to post this, I scrolled back and see it looks like you have drums with the snout machined off. How wide are the shoes? I'm wondering if you don't have thing brakes or something larger than stock.
Definitely a nice car.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

No, they didn't come without heat, so either the control unit and cylinder have been removed beside the shifter, or the flanges are hiding under the P-brake boot (which is easily pulled up for a peek). It looks like it's the former.

I find it absolutely mind-boggling that someone decided to rub out the VIN from the tunnel. I can't even imagine the rationale to do such a thing, I've never seen that. The only actual reason that makes sense is to try and hide the fact that if it (the pan) was stolen (not that that's the case here), so that if ever accused, someone could say, "Well ya can't prove it!" Aside from that, it does little more than raise questions and potentially create problems for somebody else down the road (and it definitely affects value if you ever try to sell it).

They could have just as easily swapped in a pan (which they did), and LEFT the old VIN there, and just not said anything to anybody and played dumb. To go out of their way to eliminate it seems like extra effort for zero benefit.

Nice car anyway, I'm just pointing out the bizarre nature of that aspect, no disrespect meant at all.

And by the way, if you were ever as curious as I am now, I'd be looking online at the methods people use with acid to try and reveal the VIN, that would just drive me nuts Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
No, they didn't come without heat, so either the control unit and cylinder have been removed beside the shifter, or the flanges are hiding under the P-brake boot (which is easily pulled up for a peek). It looks like it's the former.

I find it absolutely mind-boggling that someone decided to rub out the VIN from the tunnel. I can't even imagine the rationale to do such a thing, I've never seen that. The only actual reason that makes sense is to try and hide the fact that if it (the pan) was stolen (not that that's the case here), so that if ever accused, someone could say, "Well ya can't prove it!" Aside from that, it does little more than raise questions and potentially create problems for somebody else down the road (and it definitely affects value if you ever try to sell it).

They could have just as easily swapped in a pan (which they did), and LEFT the old VIN there, and just not said anything to anybody and played dumb. To go out of their way to eliminate it seems like extra effort for zero benefit.

Nice car anyway, I'm just pointing out the bizarre nature of that aspect, no disrespect meant at all.

And by the way, if you were ever as curious as I am now, I'd be looking online at the methods people use with acid to try and reveal the VIN, that would just drive me nuts Wink


Yep, grinding off a VIN from a chassis is illegal and can create a real headache if anyone were to ever to question it.
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Chainsaw Monday
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

esde wrote:
Those with the double lip drums are 58 to 64.
so it appears that you have a later (61-68 ) style transmission case, that is using early (up to 57) axle tubes, short axles, and 58-64 rear brakes and bearing retainers.
Just as I was about to post this, I scrolled back and see it looks like you have drums with the snout machined off. How wide are the shoes? I'm wondering if you don't have thing brakes or something larger than stock.
Definitely a nice car.


Thanks for all the info Smile The brake shoes are 1 1/8" wide. I was able to get to the adjuster on the passenger side and adjust all the way in, but am still unable to pull off the drum. It doesn't appear to be from rust, when I look through the holes, everything seems to be fairly clean / new underneath. I'll run up to AutoZone today and see if I can't find an 8" gear puller and hopefully be able to pop it off with that. It feels like it's actually caught up on the splines of the axle shaft, as if it was forced on? Hopefully that's not the case (or even possible).

Regarding the VIN on the pan... that sucks lol Sad


Assuming I can get this drum off today or ever, I assume I'll be buying backing plates and brake rebuild kit for a 58-64?

I have a brand new set of rear disc conversions from EMPI that I was originally planning on putting on, but with the newer condition of the master and lines up front, I don't know if I really want to mess with it all, or just rebuild the drums.

Here's the kit I have at the house already:
https://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2928.html

I ordered this one because I noticed the front tires are much further out than the rears currently, and my thought was that this would make the rear offset match the front, however now I'm feeling like I may want to return the front to stock offset and keep the rear as is. Any opinions or experience with this is welcome.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Can you rotate the drum that is stuck?

Also, wanted to say congrats on the car. It looks nice and will be a fun driver. Plenty of ovals out there on later pans and mixed and matched parts.
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Chainsaw Monday
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
Can you rotate the drum that is stuck?

Also, wanted to say congrats on the car. It looks nice and will be a fun driver. Plenty of ovals out there on later pans and mixed and matched parts.


Hey again Junkie, thanks again for all the great info. Yes, and I was just able to bang it off with a normal carpenter's hammer by hitting the small lip that extends past the back plate. The part # on the wheel cylinder is WI645A. I'm not finding any reference on that exact one online, but definitely only has one bolt and not two.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Pic of rear passenger brake assembly with drum finally removed. The adjuster pin is adjusted all the way in on the left (rear) side of the assembly. I didn't adjust that one, does that indicate an issue, or just possible bad adjustment from the person who installed these?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

This side does look mal-adjusted. The adjusting screws (with the stars down at the bottom) typically look roughly equal, while your left side there is fully INWARD, which means little-to-no contact with the drum, so it wasn't adjusted at all.

Also, judging by the spring on the parking brake cable, the P-brake looks partially engaged, or poorly adjusted. And also, the wheel (slave) cylinder up top, those pistons look at least partially actuated (pushed outward), I'm judging that based on the stretched-out boots over the pistons.

Start by looking at the right-side parking brake cable, and backing it off. Then adjust the star to bring the front shoe (the one on the right) in a bit, and check what's going on with the pistons on the wheel cylinder, they may be frozen in that position.

Not sure what your experience level is, but in this scenario, with unfamiliarity with all the working parts, I'd be tempted to just clean everything up REAL good, re-set to a zero starting point, and reassemble/rebuild everything with the existing parts just to gain familiarity with everything and to verify/validate the state of everything. Of course, you will have to replace things (shoes look like they may be wet with oil, but they have very little wear, a ton of meat on them), but nothing like doing a dry-run to familiarize the heck out of yourself with everything first.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
This side does look mal-adjusted. The adjusting screws (with the stars down at the bottom) typically look roughly equal, while your left side there is fully INWARD, which means little-to-no contact with the drum, so it wasn't adjusted at all.

Also, judging by the spring on the parking brake cable, the P-brake looks partially engaged, or poorly adjusted. And also, the wheel (slave) cylinder up top, those pistons look at least partially actuated (pushed outward), I'm judging that based on the stretched-out boots over the pistons.

Start by looking at the right-side parking brake cable, and backing it off. Then adjust the star to bring the front shoe (the one on the right) in a bit, and check what's going on with the pistons on the wheel cylinder, they may be frozen in that position.

Not sure what your experience level is, but in this scenario, with unfamiliarity with all the working parts, I'd be tempted to just clean everything up REAL good, re-set to a zero starting point, and reassemble/rebuild everything with the existing parts just to gain familiarity with everything and to verify/validate the state of everything. Of course, you will have to replace things (shoes look like they may be wet with oil, but they have very little wear, a ton of meat on them), but nothing like doing a dry-run to familiarize the heck out of yourself with everything first.


Thanks for all your input! I've ordered all new hardware for the rear, shoes, spring kit, drums, adjustment stars, e-brake clips. The only thing that's staying are the back plates. As you stated, everything is covered in what I presume is brake fluid (since there are no brakes currently, and no fluid in the reservoir.) I really like your idea of cleaning it all up and getting it to "zero" and seeing where I'm at with it as well. I will post progress pics as I make some.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Chainsaw Monday wrote:
Thanks for all your input! I've ordered all new hardware for the rear, shoes, spring kit, drums, adjustment stars, e-brake clips. The only thing that's staying are the back plates. As you stated, everything is covered in what I presume is brake fluid (since there are no brakes currently, and no fluid in the reservoir.) I really like your idea of cleaning it all up and getting it to "zero" and seeing where I'm at with it as well. I will post progress pics as I make some.

Ahh, minor point I noticed and forgot to say: the extended wheel cylinder pistons could be the result of the P-brake being actuated, and then pressing the brakes and extending the pistons to meet the shoes...this would also result in the boots being stretched out like that.

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Chainsaw Monday wrote:

Does no heater controls mean they were deleted at some point? Or did this car ever come without heat? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).


Barely can see the gearshift base in that one image. Looks like not stock box over the base that is in turn covering the heater control.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Chainsaw Monday wrote:

Does no heater controls mean they were deleted at some point? Or did this car ever come without heat? (Sorry if that's a dumb question).


Barely can see the gearshift base in that one image. Looks like not stock box over the base that is in turn covering the heater control.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm dumb. I thought it was next to the e brake lol. I will check and get a better picture of what's underneath the aftermarket shift boot.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 VW Beetle - Just inherited from deceased Uncle Reply with quote

Chainsaw Monday wrote:

I'm dumb. I thought it was next to the e brake lol. I will check and get a better picture of what's underneath the aftermarket shift boot.


Earlier heater control down to early 1950s shown in the below image posted by 56Cabrio previously on page one.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The white bigger thing is the base of a locking shifter. The knob in lower center foreground is the heater knob. Upper left background is the driver floor heater vent.

Highly recommend reading the owners manual for your year and type of VW. That is available thru the "Technical" button at upper right of any of thesamba webpages. It has this info and much more that you need to know. Also print out two copies, one for home and one for the glove compartment. Read, read again, and again till you get a good general ideal what is in the OM and how to access that info quickly.

Having the reprint of the original VW dealer workshop manual is an absolute must:

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=book1a

You can find that for less online if you shop around or even less if you search the classifieds often for a used copy. Huge amount of info in the workshop manuals that makes any other manual pales in comparison and they used to be for dealer employees eyes only. Each workshop manual was sold to the dealers in a binder that allowed any of the pages to be removed and updated pages inserted. So when it was found that there were mistakes or new info for improved parts or procedures the manuals were updated. That makes the reprinted workshop manuals pretty darned close to perfect, and will cover about 90-95% of your questions, Thesamba will cover the rest.
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