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KOMBI NIKO
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7229
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:46 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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With the stock cam, a few ponies more.
If the heads get a little tlc and you replace the cam with a more modern one, easily 10-15 hp.
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KOMBI NIKO
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[email protected]
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Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 720
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| I wouldnt go with 40idf ..your better of going with zenith ndix carbs .. |
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KOMBI NIKO
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:45 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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What rods are you using with that big crank?
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KOMBI NIKO
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Joined: February 03, 2013
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 720
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| With those rods you would have a 1.6 rod ratio not to bad ...I didn't even know Wolfsburg west sold new rods looks like they sell two types of vw 36hp H beam rods ...stock 36hp 5.110 rods ..and those 36hp 5mm shorter rods / 4.9 rods for a 74mm crank/36hp rod jounals ...learn new things everyday ...just sucks that new 36hp parts are more expensive than the 1600cc stuff... almost $500 buck for a set of 36hp H beam rods ..... I bet if they were less expensive they would sell like crazy and we would be in the same park as the 1600cc guys in pricing.... |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5971
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with 40idf ..your better of going with zenith ndix carbs .. |
Why not 40 Weber IDF or 36 Dellorto DRLA? They are excellent carbs with much better parts support the the Zenith. I think member TexasOval did an Okrasa with IDFs and it supposedly ran great
Here are some other members engines
| PeteSC wrote: |
I have 36 DRLAs on mine w/ 26mm vents. Engine is 80x69.5. Valve sizes were increased to 35mm intake and 33mm exhaust. Runs strong through the RPM range.
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| txoval wrote: |
Here is the engine:
1200cc 36hp, Okrasa dual port heads, Cam was cut to specs of Porsche Super 90, Vintage Speed Exhaust.
I had PM'd and emailed a few of you earlier when I was first having issues with carbs. Alfa corrected the progression hole on the one barrel and now the car is running on all cylinders. So now the tuning issue/questions. Mr. Tucker recommended throwing it out to the board.
Currently Dual Italian 36IDFs, 110 mains, F11, 180 airs, 50 idles.
Tried with 220 airs as well...no difference
Lean best idle found, timing set a 10*BTDC, 019 distributor, carbs are sync'd (at idle).
My issue is that just off of idle (idles great) to 25% throttle, both carbs will spit and the carbs sound like a "tweety bird" if that makes sense.
I tried my 42.5 idles with both 180 and 220, not much change...same issue.
Could it be the linkage? One issue I am having, and common with Vintage Speed, is that no one makes kits for anything. I had to take an Okrasa CSP linkage and modify it to fit the IDFs. The connecting arms are not ideal, but from my eye, they open at the same time.
I tried a CB hex bar setup, but I had to modify the heck out it to fit the narrow 36hp engine and could not get full throttle or even close.
I hope someone can offer so help, at idle and 50%-100% throttle it runs great.
Thanks |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672900&highlight=36hp+dellorto
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Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 720
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| esde wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with 40idf ..your better of going with zenith ndix carbs .. |
Why not 40 Weber IDF or 36 Dellorto DRLA? They are excellent carbs with much better parts support the the Zenith. I think member TexasOval did an Okrasa with IDFs and it supposedly ran great
Here are some other members engines
| PeteSC wrote: |
I have 36 DRLAs on mine w/ 26mm vents. Engine is 80x69.5. Valve sizes were increased to 35mm intake and 33mm exhaust. Runs strong through the RPM range.
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| txoval wrote: |
Here is the engine:
1200cc 36hp, Okrasa dual port heads, Cam was cut to specs of Porsche Super 90, Vintage Speed Exhaust.
I had PM'd and emailed a few of you earlier when I was first having issues with carbs. Alfa corrected the progression hole on the one barrel and now the car is running on all cylinders. So now the tuning issue/questions. Mr. Tucker recommended throwing it out to the board.
Currently Dual Italian 36IDFs, 110 mains, F11, 180 airs, 50 idles.
Tried with 220 airs as well...no difference
Lean best idle found, timing set a 10*BTDC, 019 distributor, carbs are sync'd (at idle).
My issue is that just off of idle (idles great) to 25% throttle, both carbs will spit and the carbs sound like a "tweety bird" if that makes sense.
I tried my 42.5 idles with both 180 and 220, not much change...same issue.
Could it be the linkage? One issue I am having, and common with Vintage Speed, is that no one makes kits for anything. I had to take an Okrasa CSP linkage and modify it to fit the IDFs. The connecting arms are not ideal, but from my eye, they open at the same time.
I tried a CB hex bar setup, but I had to modify the heck out it to fit the narrow 36hp engine and could not get full throttle or even close.
I hope someone can offer so help, at idle and 50%-100% throttle it runs great.
Thanks |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672900&highlight=36hp+dellorto |
You are right about idf parts being available and yes idf are way cheaper ...sometimes carbs can be to big for a Certain build ..yes you can add smaller venturi to the idf 40s and make it work but if there are carbs out their for certain build ...im not saying its wrong or right ....I've seen guys build stock 1600cc engines with 48 ida and its like ummm nice but why bigger carbs for that build ...carbs have to match the type of build for full Potential ...well that's what I believe but I'm not saying it's wrong or right hey whatever floats your boat and what you like or can afford I say go for it .. know if they sold those 36idf carbs like they did in the past I would be saying use the 36idf's but those are rare...and to find manifolds that match the 36idf would be nice too...I've seen 1 person use the the 36idf he said his 36hp okrasa seem to run better with them . than the 40idfs he had on him engine before changing them but his problem was the manifolds since all the idfs manifold are opened for the 40idf opening much bigger .... im not saying 40idf can be used yes they would work but sometime they are not needed sometimes smaller carbs work for certain engine Potential.... |
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KOMBI NIKO
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2013
Posts: 278
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:47 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| With those rods you would have a 1.6 rod ratio not to bad ...I didn't even know Wolfsburg west sold new rods looks like they sell two types of vw 36hp H beam rods ...stock 36hp 5.110 rods ..and those 36hp 5mm shorter rods / 4.9 rods for a 74mm crank/36hp rod jounals ...learn new things everyday ...just sucks that new 36hp parts are more expensive than the 1600cc stuff... almost $500 buck for a set of 36hp H beam rods ..... I bet if they were less expensive they would sell like crazy and we would be in the same park as the 1600cc guys in pricing.... |
Try building this motor down under the rods are almost $850 aud  Shipping kills us down here. I did get a set of matching zenith ndix carbs for a good price and new gasket kits too. Didn't want to run aftermarket carbs and og ones are way too rare down here.
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:58 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| esde wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with 40idf ..your better of going with zenith ndix carbs .. |
Why not 40 Weber IDF or 36 Dellorto DRLA? They are excellent carbs with much better parts support the the Zenith. I think member TexasOval did an Okrasa with IDFs and it supposedly ran great
Here are some other members engines
| PeteSC wrote: |
I have 36 DRLAs on mine w/ 26mm vents. Engine is 80x69.5. Valve sizes were increased to 35mm intake and 33mm exhaust. Runs strong through the RPM range.
|
| txoval wrote: |
Here is the engine:
1200cc 36hp, Okrasa dual port heads, Cam was cut to specs of Porsche Super 90, Vintage Speed Exhaust.
I had PM'd and emailed a few of you earlier when I was first having issues with carbs. Alfa corrected the progression hole on the one barrel and now the car is running on all cylinders. So now the tuning issue/questions. Mr. Tucker recommended throwing it out to the board.
Currently Dual Italian 36IDFs, 110 mains, F11, 180 airs, 50 idles.
Tried with 220 airs as well...no difference
Lean best idle found, timing set a 10*BTDC, 019 distributor, carbs are sync'd (at idle).
My issue is that just off of idle (idles great) to 25% throttle, both carbs will spit and the carbs sound like a "tweety bird" if that makes sense.
I tried my 42.5 idles with both 180 and 220, not much change...same issue.
Could it be the linkage? One issue I am having, and common with Vintage Speed, is that no one makes kits for anything. I had to take an Okrasa CSP linkage and modify it to fit the IDFs. The connecting arms are not ideal, but from my eye, they open at the same time.
I tried a CB hex bar setup, but I had to modify the heck out it to fit the narrow 36hp engine and could not get full throttle or even close.
I hope someone can offer so help, at idle and 50%-100% throttle it runs great.
Thanks |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672900&highlight=36hp+dellorto |
For what it's worth my engine (pictured above) is coming up on 6 years old and it has around 18,000 miles on it. The 36 DRLAs seem to be a good fit.
I settled on the final tuning with an air/fuel meter, and the sweet spot for my engine seems to be 37* max advance with a Bosch 010, 26mm vents, 60 idle, 180 air, and 115 main (yes, I tried in vein to set it between 28-32 degrees....bigger Okrasa engines don't seem to like that range. There are several threads on here from land speed guys having them on the dyno that find 37-39 degrees yield the best results. DO NOT SET YOUR TIMING THAT HIGH WITHOUT USING AN AIR FUEL METER TO VERIFY YOUR JETTING CAN SUPPORT THAT MUCH ADVANCE). I can't recall the pump jet, but I think it's a 35.
At wide open throttle the AFR stays between 12.0-13.0 through the RPM range. I have no flat spots or hesitation in regular stop-and-go driving, and I have routinely taken it on 180 mile round trips to a VW show in the July heat of South Carolina, with engine oil never going over 200 degrees while averaging just under 31 mpg. |
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KOMBI NIKO
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2013
Posts: 278
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:13 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
| esde wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with 40idf ..your better of going with zenith ndix carbs .. |
Why not 40 Weber IDF or 36 Dellorto DRLA? They are excellent carbs with much better parts support the the Zenith. I think member TexasOval did an Okrasa with IDFs and it supposedly ran great
Here are some other members engines
| PeteSC wrote: |
I have 36 DRLAs on mine w/ 26mm vents. Engine is 80x69.5. Valve sizes were increased to 35mm intake and 33mm exhaust. Runs strong through the RPM range.
|
| txoval wrote: |
Here is the engine:
1200cc 36hp, Okrasa dual port heads, Cam was cut to specs of Porsche Super 90, Vintage Speed Exhaust.
I had PM'd and emailed a few of you earlier when I was first having issues with carbs. Alfa corrected the progression hole on the one barrel and now the car is running on all cylinders. So now the tuning issue/questions. Mr. Tucker recommended throwing it out to the board.
Currently Dual Italian 36IDFs, 110 mains, F11, 180 airs, 50 idles.
Tried with 220 airs as well...no difference
Lean best idle found, timing set a 10*BTDC, 019 distributor, carbs are sync'd (at idle).
My issue is that just off of idle (idles great) to 25% throttle, both carbs will spit and the carbs sound like a "tweety bird" if that makes sense.
I tried my 42.5 idles with both 180 and 220, not much change...same issue.
Could it be the linkage? One issue I am having, and common with Vintage Speed, is that no one makes kits for anything. I had to take an Okrasa CSP linkage and modify it to fit the IDFs. The connecting arms are not ideal, but from my eye, they open at the same time.
I tried a CB hex bar setup, but I had to modify the heck out it to fit the narrow 36hp engine and could not get full throttle or even close.
I hope someone can offer so help, at idle and 50%-100% throttle it runs great.
Thanks |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672900&highlight=36hp+dellorto |
For what it's worth my engine (pictured above) is coming up on 6 years old and it has around 18,000 miles on it. The 36 DRLAs seem to be a good fit.
I settled on the final tuning with an air/fuel meter, and the sweet spot for my engine seems to be 37* max advance with a Bosch 010, 26mm vents, 60 idle, 180 air, and 115 main (yes, I tried in vein to set it between 28-32 degrees....bigger Okrasa engines don't seem to like that range. There are several threads on here from land speed guys having them on the dyno that find 37-39 degrees yield the best results. DO NOT SET YOUR TIMING THAT HIGH WITHOUT USING AN AIR FUEL METER TO VERIFY YOUR JETTING CAN SUPPORT THAT MUCH ADVANCE). I can't recall the pump jet, but I think it's a 35.
At wide open throttle the AFR stays between 12.0-13.0 through the RPM range. I have no flat spots or hesitation in regular stop-and-go driving, and I have routinely taken it on 180 mile round trips to a VW show in the July heat of South Carolina, with engine oil never going over 200 degrees while averaging just under 31 mpg. |
Hay Pete, what valves and springs did you use? That's one thing I've yet to sort out.
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https://www.facebook.com/Demopgarage/
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:08 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| KOMBI NIKO wrote: |
| Hay Pete, what valves and springs did you use? That's one thing I've yet to sort out. |
The stock springs that came with the WW heads. |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7229
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:34 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
For what it's worth my engine (pictured above) is coming up on 6 years old and it has around 18,000 miles on it. The 36 DRLAs seem to be a good fit.
I settled on the final tuning with an air/fuel meter, and the sweet spot for my engine seems to be 37* max advance with a Bosch 010, 26mm vents, 60 idle, 180 air, and 115 main (yes, I tried in vein to set it between 28-32 degrees....bigger Okrasa engines don't seem to like that range. There are several threads on here from land speed guys having them on the dyno that find 37-39 degrees yield the best results. DO NOT SET YOUR TIMING THAT HIGH WITHOUT USING AN AIR FUEL METER TO VERIFY YOUR JETTING CAN SUPPORT THAT MUCH ADVANCE). I can't recall the pump jet, but I think it's a 35.
At wide open throttle the AFR stays between 12.0-13.0 through the RPM range. I have no flat spots or hesitation in regular stop-and-go driving, and I have routinely taken it on 180 mile round trips to a VW show in the July heat of South Carolina, with engine oil never going over 200 degrees while averaging just under 31 mpg. |
With a non modified Okrasa chamber that makes perfect sense. Plug location is wrong and the chamber shape is not worth writing home about. (This is also why twin spark works significantly better than it should on these engines in spite of the small bore.) This along with a lazy 6 volt system gives that. As always, the use of a more powerfull ignition helps and can soon aid in pulling a couple of degrees out ogf the timing. But if you keep the car 6 volt there are only the Winterburn and the Miller CDI on the market. This will also help on the fuel efficiency. Not major, but something like 2 mpg. or so.
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KOMBI NIKO
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2013
Posts: 278
Location: Australia
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:47 am Post subject: Re: hp increase with different carbies? |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
| PeteSC wrote: |
For what it's worth my engine (pictured above) is coming up on 6 years old and it has around 18,000 miles on it. The 36 DRLAs seem to be a good fit.
I settled on the final tuning with an air/fuel meter, and the sweet spot for my engine seems to be 37* max advance with a Bosch 010, 26mm vents, 60 idle, 180 air, and 115 main (yes, I tried in vein to set it between 28-32 degrees....bigger Okrasa engines don't seem to like that range. There are several threads on here from land speed guys having them on the dyno that find 37-39 degrees yield the best results. DO NOT SET YOUR TIMING THAT HIGH WITHOUT USING AN AIR FUEL METER TO VERIFY YOUR JETTING CAN SUPPORT THAT MUCH ADVANCE). I can't recall the pump jet, but I think it's a 35.
At wide open throttle the AFR stays between 12.0-13.0 through the RPM range. I have no flat spots or hesitation in regular stop-and-go driving, and I have routinely taken it on 180 mile round trips to a VW show in the July heat of South Carolina, with engine oil never going over 200 degrees while averaging just under 31 mpg. |
With a non modified Okrasa chamber that makes perfect sense. Plug location is wrong and the chamber shape is not worth writing home about. (This is also why twin spark works significantly better than it should on these engines in spite of the small bore.) This along with a lazy 6 volt system gives that. As always, the use of a more powerfull ignition helps and can soon aid in pulling a couple of degrees out ogf the timing. But if you keep the car 6 volt there are only the Winterburn and the Miller CDI on the market. This will also help on the fuel efficiency. Not major, but something like 2 mpg. or so. |
A 12v conversion is on my to-do list. I recently acquired a thin-slot generator rewound to 12v (that includes a 12v VR in a Bosch 6v top mounted shell so it appears as if it's an original gen/VR unit) and a 12v starter with the 6v flywheel gear. I just really don't want to take it all apart at the moment, so it'll have to wait. You're correct though, and that's exactly my hope, that with improved ignition I can dial in the tuning even more (though I'm not expecting drastic changes given the head design you mentioned). I do like the vintage speed look so I'll be keeping the 010. The other hot rodded engines I'm referring too were also 12v engines with ignition upgrades and they still did their best with the higher advance (see this post for one example).
| KOMBI NIKO wrote: |
| PeteSC wrote: |
| KOMBI NIKO wrote: |
| Hay Pete, what valves and springs did you use? That's one thing I've yet to sort out. |
The stock springs that came with the WW heads. |
And same valves too? |
No, valves were custom made by Joe Ruiz. 35mm intake, 33mm exhaust. |
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