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GI Joe
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Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Athens, TN
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: Vw Mexico transaxle options... |
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Continued from another thread....
The question is this...
Why would VW Mexico production have only Swing axle bugs, but IRS Things..?
Why would they move only IRS Thing/Trekker/Safari production to Mexico, but not IRS bugs too?
Was the 181 produced in Germany as well, up through the last?
When did they switch from RGB to IRS on Things?
Also, when did Mexico start making bugs, and were they all In country vehicles, or did they export to other foreign markets(just not U.S.)?
It always intrigues me when companies make certain choices...
To produce a car directly across the U.S. border, and not bring them here, yet import the same vehicle from Germany instead..... Just odd....
Then to build the 181 in Mexico,AND import it to the U.S.....?? Weird.....
@Bruce, I'd appreciate any evidence you have to back up your claims of Swing axle only bugs in Mexico... 
My research thus far shows 1 late model('97?) mexi bug for sale to describe it as Swing axle...
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germanbilly
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Joined: October 18, 2013
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Location: Victorville
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17296
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Vw Mexico transaxle options... |
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| GI Joe wrote: |
| Was the 181 produced in Germany as well, up through the last? |
The Type 181 was designed in Germany, then produced there. After the first year or two, production was moved to Mexico. After then, all Type 181s were made in Mexico. I'm sure someone can fill in the exact dates.
| GI Joe wrote: |
| When did they switch from RGB to IRS on Things? .. |
VW never switched from reduction boxes to IRS in the Thing. In 1973, VW added as an option IRS rear suspension. Reduction box swing axle Safaris were still produced after 1973. I have seen plenty of Safaris built after 73, and checked the pans. They clearly have never been IRS. The 73 Safari I bought last year in Guatemala was swing axle with reduction boxes.
| GI Joe wrote: |
Also, when did Mexico start making bugs, and were they all In country vehicles, or did they export to other foreign markets(just not U.S.)? |
CKD kits in 54, then complete cars in 65. See the Wiki article.
VW of Mex exported Beetles to other Spanish speaking countries in Latin America, but stopped sometime in the late 90s.
After VW in Germany stopped making Beetles in 1978, they imported Beetles from Mexico.
| GI Joe wrote: |
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Why would VW Mexico production have only Swing axle bugs, but IRS Things..? |
Swing axle is cheaper to manufacture and maintain. But IRS is safer when cornering at high speeds. IMO, the reason VWoA sold only IRS cars after 69 is due to fears from lawsuits started by Ralph Nader. He identified swing axle as a dangerous design in a rear engine car, and announced his intention to attack VW shortly after his victory over GM regarding the Corvair's swing axle design. By switching to IRS, VW took away that argument from Ralph Nader.
Then, when VW wanted to sell the Type 181 in the USA, IRS was needed.
| GI Joe wrote: |
It always intrigues me when companies make certain choices...
To produce a car directly across the U.S. border, and not bring them here, yet import the same vehicle from Germany instead..... Just odd....
Then to build the 181 in Mexico,AND import it to the U.S.....?? Weird.... |
When I made the pilgrimage to the holy city of Puebla in 2002, I was able to get in on a tour of the factory. I knew at that time, VW of Brazil had stopped making the Beetle in 96, and that VW of Mexico was importing complete transmissions from Brazil for their current production. I asked my tour guide why would they continue making the gearbox on another continent when the only factory using it was in Mexico? He said it is usually best to just let them keep building what they know how to do. IOW, transferring production would create a whole lot of start-up problems. It's too bad, because the Brazilian gearbox is junk.
| GI Joe wrote: |
| @Bruce, I'd appreciate any evidence you have to back up your claims of Swing axle only bugs in Mexico..... |
Extensive travel in Mexico, meeting hundreds of VW people, visiting countless VW shops. When they saw my German Beetle, they would always check it out. I would invite them to look underneath at the "suspension de Safari". They would always wonder why, having never seen an IRS Beetle.
There are a few IRS Beetles in Mexico. All of them are USA imports. All illegal aliens.
Check out the following coordinates in Google Earth: 20º42'33.72"N 105º13'40.31"
Anyone that has landed in Puerta Vallarta approaching from the east may have seen this junk yard off the right side of the airplane. It is the towing yard for the towing co that is contracted by the city of PV. Last time I was there, I was able to walk through this towing yard. There were at least 10 IRS Beetles in there. All with MPH speedos.
I had a neighbour who had a 79 Beetle convertible. He was towing it behind his motorhome in Baja California when one of the rear wheels fell off. He didn't notice it for quite a while. The repair shop didn't have any IRS parts to fix it, so he just left the car there. There's how one IRS Beetle made it into Mexico.
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GI Joe
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Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Athens, TN
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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 Wow!!
Ask and ye shall receive!!
Fantastic write up, Bruce.. Thank you for sharing.
I guess the bigger picture is hard to see, when not directly involved..
I must ask, if Germany stopped bug production in 1978, and then imported their bugs from Mexico thereafter, would any post '78 bug in Europe also be Swing-axle then?
And would the '79bugs in the U.S. Actually be '78 production ?
I hope I am not coming off as argumentative.... I am simply intrigued by this info!
I am also curious as to wether the Vin I remember was a swap or what....  I am certain it was a Hecho en Mexico ......
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'74 Thing, "Our Thing"....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60
'71 Beetle RPU
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8080337#8080337
www.NLEOMF.com
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Ron Domeck
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Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I have always heard that the Thing was the first car Mexico ever exported. Is this true? Thanks for this info, great. |
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hopkin 
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Joined: June 25, 2012
Posts: 2481
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Gi Joe:
Just to confirm what others have written, and to confirm your comment about Swing Axle Beetles in Germany. My Mexican built '96 Beetle is Swing Axle, it was sold new in Germany in Feb '97 (and then imported to the UK in '02).
There are thousands of Mexican Beetles imported to Germany (and the UK) during the 90's and 00's. They only required some minor modifications for European licensing (ie rear fog light, some labeling).
Have a look at www.1600i.de, there are some pages with pictures of Mexican Beetles from all over Germany (and other countries).
These cars are not the 'gray' market Mexican Beetle (re-pans) that show up from time to time in the US, but legally imported cars new from Pueblo with 17 digit VIN's.
Here in Canada we enjoy a 15 year restriction on importing cars (compared to the 25 year limit in the US), so I was able to legally import my '96 Beetle into Canada (from the UK) without modification in 2012.
As the car is legally registered in Canada (and I live 40 minutes from the border), I have driven my car in the US many times:
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Al Capulco
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Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 532
Location: Northridge, CA.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Not all the Type 181 were built in Mexico. They were still being built in Germany as well. The production numbers were about the same in '73 and '74 for both countries. The Type 181 continued to be made until 1978 in Germany, but the production numbers did decline. |
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17296
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| GI Joe wrote: |
| if Germany stopped bug production in 1978, and then imported their bugs from Mexico thereafter, would any post '78 bug in Europe also be Swing-axle then? |
Beetle Sedan production ended in 1978 in Germany. Beetle Cabriolet production continued until Jan 1980 as a 1979 model year. So any 79 or later Sedan in Europe would be swing axle and made in Mexico. Sadly, with a 1.2 liter engine only.
| GI Joe wrote: |
| And would the '79bugs in the U.S. Actually be '78 production ? |
All 79 Beetles sold in the USA were convertibles made in Germany. All convertible Beetles 71 to 79 were based on the Super Beetle, and all Super Beetles were IRS.
The last Type 181 made in Mexico was made in 1980.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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phulc
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Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| VW never switched from reduction boxes to IRS in the Thing. In 1973, VW added as an option IRS rear suspension. Reduction box swing axle Safaris were still produced after 1973. I have seen plenty of Safaris built after 73, and checked the pans. They clearly have never been IRS. The 73 Safari I bought last year in Guatemala was swing axle with reduction boxes. |
Not in Germany. From model year 1973 on only IRS was sold with the thing. It has never been an "option" to chose. The reduction boxes were sorted out because they tended to run hot on long distance trips, so I was told ...
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phulc
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Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| GI Joe wrote: |
| if Germany stopped bug production in 1978, and then imported their bugs from Mexico thereafter, would any post '78 bug in Europe also be Swing-axle then? |
Beetle Sedan production ended in 1978 in Germany. Beetle Cabriolet production continued until Jan 1980 as a 1979 model year. So any 79 or later Sedan in Europe would be swing axle and made in Mexico. Sadly, with a 1.2 liter engine only.
| GI Joe wrote: |
| And would the '79bugs in the U.S. Actually be '78 production ? |
All 79 Beetles sold in the USA were convertibles made in Germany. All convertible Beetles 71 to 79 were based on the Super Beetle, and all Super Beetles were IRS.
The last Type 181 made in Mexico was made in 1980. |
In Germany the production of the sedan super beetles ended 1975. The convertibles were continued 'til 1980 by Karmann in Osnabrück.
All sedans from 1975 on were swing-axles (and 1200). Automatic transmission had not been offered anymore. Last German sedan had been built in January 1978, from that time on the sedan had been imported from Puebla, Mexico.
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If I can sent you anything you look for that can be bought in Germany more easily I´d be glad to help ...
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Beastofthesoutheast
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Joined: April 29, 2023
Posts: 22
Location: Claremore Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Vw Mexico transaxle options... |
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| Ok I have a good question. I was looking on market place n came across a 1994 vw bug type one for sale. It looked really good n I knew it had to be one built in Mexico or Brazil. Not sure about Brazil but anyway. As I read the discription on the car it said it had a 5 speed transaxle. Know I know back in the 80’s I remember reading in a hot vw magazine that there was a lot you can buy to rebuild your 4 speed into a 5 speed but I didn’t know that some bugs was built in Mexico. I was just going into high school. Anyway did the Mexico bugs come out with a 5 speed trans on certain models ? Or could this be a kit type? Or a misspelling? If they did come out with a 5 speed will that trans work in my 71 Baja ? I’ve heard lots of people say the 5 speed or the highway flier is not any good cause the fan won’t be turning fast enough to cool the engine but my thinking is if it’s not turning as fast it should run cooler anyway. |
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phulc
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17296
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Vw Mexico transaxle options... |
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| Beastofthesoutheast wrote: |
| ... I read the discription on the car it said it had a 5 speed transaxle. .... |
Most likely the guy writing the description only knew it had a manual transmission and it's likely he's a younger person that never knew that before cars had 5 speeds, they had only 4.
In other words, he saw the clutch pedal and assumed 5 speed.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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