Wrong Bosch 009?

rokemester · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: Wrong Bosch 009?

I have a 0231 178 009 mechanical advance dizzy on my 66 1300 motor. When the distributor is installed with the engine at TDC the rotor is able to rotate without turning the motor. Is this right? Shouldn't there be a positive engagement between the distributor and the engine. The rotor seems to be floating, almost like the distributor isn't quite long enough. When I turn the engine at the generator the dizzy rotor doesn't move correspondingly. It takes a moment for it to catch up. This can't be right!

I had the engine running pretty well for a few days, then suddenly the engine began to stumble severely out of 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Glenn · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:49 am Post subject:

It's not installed all the way.
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74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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keifernet · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:43 am Post subject:

Also you should not confuse the rotor moving and springing back when you twist it... on mechanical advance /SVDA/DVDA distributor's it's supposed to do that.

And your not timing it correct setting it at 0 TDC. That's the spec for the original distributor.

rokemester · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:15 am Post subject:

The distributor doesn't appear to be completely seated. There is about and 1/8 gap between the dist inlet and the 009. Is that what you mean when you say that it isn't installed all the way, and it is installed incorrectly?

My only experience has been with a vaccum advance distributor and I remember the dist rotor being more locked in place. I've read the threads about how you have to time the 009 to around 30 deg BTDC at 3,000 rpm but all I have are strobe and engine analyzer for 12v and my 66 1300 engine is a 6v.

glutamodo · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:55 am Post subject:

Well, you can use that, just get a 12V power source - an extra battery or one of those jump-start battery things, or even park a car nearby and use its battery.

The clamp needs to be flush with the case to allow the distributor to seat all the way. If need be remove the clamp and bend it a little so it'll fit flush. And the distributor will need to go to the bottom of the clamp as well. If it's right, it should look something like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

keifernet · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:16 am Post subject:

rokemester · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:27 am Post subject:

Great picture. This really helps! My distributor is clearly not seated properly. This also confirms that the distributor had been installed incorrectly when I first got the car, which confused the issue.

Glenn · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:32 am Post subject:

It only goes in one way, the slot is offset.

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

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glutamodo · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:40 am Post subject:

Like Glenn said - the drive gear should only go in one way as shown..... BUTl, if a previous owner/builder had installed the distributor drive gear indexed inproperly, the fact that the 009 does not have a vacuum canister on it makes it very easy to just rotate it around til number one lines up with the mark and call it good. I've seen this more than once before. But yes, if it's indexed right, the 009 ends up in a position like shown in my photo above.

rokemester · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:25 am Post subject:

Is that why my rotor doesn't follow the exact movement of the engine turning? It took a while to catch up. That didn't seem right to me. The distributor wasn't slotted properly?

By the way you guys are amazing how you can pull up technical details and photos to support these technical questions. What do you guys do for a living? Thanks.

Towel Rail · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:

The distributor rotates once for every two rotations of the crank, if that's what you're asking... Smile

_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009

rokemester · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject:

Yes that helps explain what I'm seeing. Thanks.

rokemester · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject:

I have some shots to share of my installation. I have the no. 1 cylinder at TDC. See the distributor receiver slot. Sorry for not having the right terminology.

Here is the distributor

And this is absolutely the farthest I can get the distributor to seat.

Is there supposed to be a spring at the center of the dist inlet? When the distributor is inserted the rotor will not slot into the inlet. It seems to be too short.

glutamodo · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

Yes there is supposed to be a spring in there. Sometimes you have to tap on the distributor pretty good (wood block on the rim) to get it to seat in there. I did to get the 009 into that mostly bare block in the photo I took this morning, above. (there was a drive gear in there with thrust washers under it) But you need to be sure the gear is in the slot properly first.

Well, I had to go in and rotate your photo so it matches the factory photo, here - lightened it up some too. Compare it to the one below - I'd say that it looks like yours in off by 180 degrees to me. Not uncommon at all. Your rotor will have to point 180 degrees off from the mark with the gear in like that to properly engage. (that is unless someone went in and rotated the "driving dog" on the bottom of the distributor)

I've seen it before! My first bug was set up like that. Messed me up on my first valve adjustment (as in "WTF, why are all of these valves so far off?)" These pics were taken before and after I corrected that on my car (very old pics, these are from)

-Andy

lovethatconvertible · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject:

Yes there is suppose to be a spring in the center of the dist. drive gear. the dist. is still not all the way in on your last pic. look at the bottom of the dist. shalt and you'll notice the locating tabs are offset to one side, now look down onto the dist. drive gear and you'll see the same offset. when installing that needs to line up in order for your dist. to be seated all the way in. I could be wrong Keith or andy will know for sure but your dist. drive gear looks a little off in the scheme of things but that dosen't have anything to do with the seating of the dist.

rokemester · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:20 am Post subject:

When I line up the the generator pulley to 7.5 degrees BTDC the distributor drive lines up like the factory picture. No it doesn't, the smaller offset is supposed to face the pulley and mine doesn't.

Could the distributor drive shaft be installed 180 degrees off? Because I am at TDC for piston 1.

glutamodo · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:50 am Post subject:

YES, that's exactly what I was saying above - It is entirely possible, I've seen it many times. Including, as I mentioned on my 62, previous owner/builder did it. It's really not that hard to figure out if it's on the firing stroke or not at TDC, but still some people just throw the drive gear in without checking, then don't discover it's off til later and don't feel like pulling the drive gear out and reinstalling correctly.
-Andy

rokemester · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, how hard is it to install the distributor drive gear correctly? That might be beyond my humble mechanical abilities. As you can tell I'm pretty stretched as it is!

keifernet · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject:

rokemester · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject:

Yes, I realize that the no 1 piston needs to be at TDC and how to insure that it is. What's not entirely clear to me, should the dizzy drive slot line up the way shown in the manual photos with the engine at TDC, 7.5 BTDC or 10 BTDC?

Thanks to all for being patient with me. As I read and re-read your observations and comments I see how dense I'm being with this problem. I've been confused about the offset slot in the dizzy drive and in previous posts thought that people just installed the distributor backwards by accident. Now I see that some need to install the distributor based on how the dist drive is oriented.


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