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lostinbaja
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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 Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Hardtimes wrote: |
| ShadyOne wrote: |
| Turbo on a bug is alot more feasible and makes better power imo. But yes the engine will need to be lower compression ect in order to reliably run any boost. over a pound or 2 anyways.. |
well I am a american motor head just kinda got into vw's do not really like turbo's got to map everything (piping and such ) then theres wiring for 02 sensor and pretty much everything else . I like simplicity roots style superchargers have been in old fashion engines for ever I mean even the vw beetles had superchargers before ... except those ones look too small for a 1600 dp ( always see them on 36 and 40 hp engines ) but was wondering since i do have a m90 and a m62 ( both need rebuild though) |
Mass produced american cars had turbos before they had superchargers. 
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Last edited by lostinbaja on Tue May 17, 2011 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joel Mohr
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 269
Location: High Desert SoCal
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Ya, wrong Joel  no problem.....our turbo motor will go back in the car tomarrow for drivability testing.....after some tuning, we ended up with a 30mm venturi, and made 115 hp and 132 torque at 7 psi. we will make an 1 3/8ths header next week, then back on the dyno....
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Hardtimes
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Chino, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
| Hardtimes wrote: |
| Joel Mohr wrote: |
| Just dynoed our 1600 project... all stock with a web 119 and some single springs. turbo from a WRX, down by the apron with a single Kadron....110 hp and 130 torgue! We will be offering a header in the next few months. The Turbo was 100 bucks from E-Bay! |
Joel if your bug was the the same one from the aussieveedubbers site man i could do that easy my question is to you i want to run a almost stock 1600 dp i did read that you ran the 1600dp for 2700km no problems really so was wondering on that did you do anything to the heads like copper spacers or anything to lower compression and was wondering what amount of boost should i be looking for ?
was hoping for 85-125 hp off a stock 1600dp ( maybe just P&P heads ) should i use the same sc12 blower or something else like the amr300 or something ?
also i want to set it up for drawthru setup what type of carb should i use ( im sure my stock 34pict wont work) |
Wrong Joel 
You obviously found my old thread
Stock 1600dp at 6psi was good for 85 at the wheel, 1776 at that was around 100hp, never got to dyno that one, cam didnt work well with the blower at low revs. |
Sorry for mixing up the two Joels kinda new to vw's and samba but I can find sc12's and amr300 / 500's pretty easy . I really like your setup and can rebuild that with almost everything . I have in my backyard and at the shop can get the sc12 supercharger for under 150 bucks only other thing I need to buy would be a serpentine belt and a bov for it.
I noticed ( read that whole post you did awhile back ) that with boost your studs didnt do the job . Should I get upgraded studs there the stock ones right now from a dp 1600 and im trying to pretty much double my hp for under 600 bucks I think this setup can work perfectly .
Any advice on your same setup for me to do , how to , what not to do's would be great. |
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Joel
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Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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All good.
The litttle Aisin AMR blowers are abit small for a VW engine, a little 1200 maybe like grueni's setup would work but they come off little 3cylinder 800cc micro cars so it's asking alot.
A guy I know here in Oz had an AMR500 on a 1500sp but it didn't last.
It ran for a few years but due to the size they have to be overdriven fairly dramatically and it kills them after a while.
SC12 are on the limits with something like my 1776, I wouldnt go much bigger unless your only running low boost like 5-6psi.
I got a bigger SC14 that I was starting to build a twin carb blow through setup using Solex 32DIS turbo carbs and was going to intercool but the SC14s are just too big physically to mount to an upright motor.
Oh yeah the headstuds, that depends on your boost level but I didn't actually have any dramas.
THe 1600 had stock 10mm studs with no case savers 
even bumped upto 10psi it seemed to hold out fine for well over a year.
The 1776 did snap a stud but that happened when I was tensioning them up, but was because they were cheap shitty studs, probably pencils or drinking straws disguised as headstuds.
Replaced them with scat chromemolys and all good.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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Hardtimes
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Chino, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
All good.
The litttle Aisin AMR blowers are abit small for a VW engine, a little 1200 maybe like grueni's setup would work but they come off little 3cylinder 800cc micro cars so it's asking alot.
A guy I know here in Oz had an AMR500 on a 1500sp but it didn't last.
It ran for a few years but due to the size they have to be overdriven fairly dramatically and it kills them after a while.
SC12 are on the limits with something like my 1776, I wouldnt go much bigger unless your only running low boost like 5-6psi.
I got a bigger SC14 that I was starting to build a twin carb blow through setup using Solex 32DIS turbo carbs and was going to intercool but the SC14s are just too big physically to mount to an upright motor.
Oh yeah the headstuds, that depends on your boost level but I didn't actually have any dramas.
THe 1600 had stock 10mm studs with no case savers
even bumped upto 10psi it seemed to hold out fine for well over a year.
The 1776 did snap a stud but that happened when I was tensioning them up, but was because they were cheap shitty studs, probably pencils or drinking straws disguised as headstuds.
Replaced them with scat chromemolys and all good. |
could i run 10psi off of a stock 1600dp without anymods as a daily driver though ? was wondering because i just got my 1600dp back from being rebuilt has everything new in it... was wondering if i should get the heads p&p'd and maybe some 1.4 roller rockers before i mount the sc12 ( witch i found for 150 bucks ) |
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Hardtimes
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Chino, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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just picked up my sc12 supercharger
now to make brackets to mount it and intake tubes
i do have a question the clutch of the supercharger should i make it a solid gear ( every other roots style supercharger i have worked on where ) and will i have use the two wires that come from back of the clutch pully ? and whats it for ? |
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RailBoy
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2008
Posts: 2904
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Thought a Judson did like 85 HP or so..... Balance out the engine and run it... RB |
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Hardtimes
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Chino, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| RailBoy wrote: |
| Thought a Judson did like 85 HP or so..... Balance out the engine and run it... RB |
i wouldnt mind a Judsons but i cant find one for 100 bucks |
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RailBoy
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2008
Posts: 2904
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The average price I have gauged over the past 5 years is $1,500 for a full blown set-up all original with Jar and all... Plus new Vains and the whole works. I would go with the dual belt one which ever HP that is for, I think there are or were two models is from what I gather.. Plus there are a still a few guys that rebuild and service them, that is were you get the Vains from, mostley in Europe is were those guys hang... Thing is Milage, not sure what kind of milage you can get between servicing, that was my confusion, bang for your buck...... RB |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardtimes wrote: |
| i do have a question the clutch of the supercharger should i make it a solid gear ( every other roots style supercharger i have worked on where ) and will i have use the two wires that come from back of the clutch pully ? and whats it for ? |
As it's going in a draw through carby setup you will need to run it all the time.
Originally I had my clutch hard wired to the coil but in the end I removed the clutch and ran a fixed pulley.
It will run without the clutch engaged but it will be pretty doughy as it wont be making any boost and the timing will be retarded back.
The reason they have the clutch is in the original 4A-GZE Toyota setup the supercharger only runs once the load on the engine is enough, normally the air bypasses around it through the valve on the side then once the engine load is enough it shuts the bypass valve and engages the clutch.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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Hardtimes
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Chino, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| so for a fix pully on the super charger and to set it up for 10 psi what size pullys should i yank fron a junk yard off of a ae86 or mr2? also what pully will bolt to the sc to be fixed? |
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vakot110
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Slovakia
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Andrew
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2000
Posts: 5865
Location: Who in the what now?
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| RailBoy wrote: |
| The average price I have gauged over the past 5 years is $1,500 for a full blown set-up all original with Jar and all... Plus new Vains and the whole works. I would go with the dual belt one which ever HP that is for, I think there are or were two models is from what I gather.. Plus there are a still a few guys that rebuild and service them, that is were you get the Vains from, mostley in Europe is were those guys hang... Thing is Milage, not sure what kind of milage you can get between servicing, that was my confusion, bang for your buck...... RB |
Judsons were designed for 1200cc engines and aren't sized big enough for 1600cc engines. Anybody who tried it on a 1600 expecting big hp numbers would be pretty disappointed with the hp numbers, especially considering what they paid for them. And on top of that, the upkeep that they have to do for the blower.
Plus, the stud spacing on the Judson for it to bolt to the intake manifold is setup for a single port manifold. For it to bolt onto a dual port manifold, you'd have to run an adapter and then figure out what size belts to run.
There are much more cost efficient setups out there that are actually designed for using on a 1600cc engine rather than a Judson.
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4939
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lostinbaja wrote: |
| Mass produced american cars had turbos before they had superchargers. |
Beg to differ, Gov'ner...
First production American Turbocharged cars:
Oldsmobile F-85 Jetfire Sport Coupe - April 1962 production start
Chevrolet Corvair - ~ May 1962 production start
First Production American Supercharged cars:
1907 Chadwick ~ 300 built
Mid-1930's era Duesenberg SJ's, Cord 851's
Graham - first supercharged car in 1934 - offered Crank-driven (direct driven) superchargers on both 6 and 8 cylinder engines... During their years in business, Graham produced more supercharged cars than any other automobile manufacturer until Buick passed them in the 1990s.)
Kaiser Manhattan - 1954
Studebaker Golden Hawk - 1957 - (’57 Golden Hawk became the fifth production car in the history of American passenger vehicles to incorporate a supercharger as standard equipment.)
Packard Clipper - 1957
Ford Thunderbird ~ 1956-57
Now you know part of the story...
bnc
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8623
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23950
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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and to think I thought super chargen was what I have been doing to the plastic card my wife took away.hmm that looks almost as fun. |
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jesus_chrysler
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
| ShadyOne wrote: |
| Turbo on a bug is alot more feasible and makes better power imo. But yes the engine will need to be lower compression ect in order to reliably run any boost. over a pound or 2 anyways.. |
I tried both the turbo and the blower and the blower gave much better results both $$ wise and performance than the turbo setup did.
Stock CR on a 1600dp works perfectly well for boost, I had mine upto 10psi with no problems
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Is that a clutch on the supercharger? Mad Max beetle? 
Or is it a dampening spring? it looks like an A/C clutch.
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66brm
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 3676
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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yep its an AC clutch
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| modok wrote: |
| I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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The clutch is completely pointless on a carbed engine.
Unless you can change the timing curve when the clutch is turned off the engine runs doughy as shit.
Also the manifold vacuum has to keep the lobes spinning when the clutch is disengaged which doesnt take a real lot of effort but is still a restriction.
I had the clutch removed, that's why there's bolts through it.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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grueni
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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with bypass kind of vw g60 engines. no problem
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