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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: UK (South)
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 Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:15 am Post subject: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Anyone know of a flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures (dries) and doesn't cost a fortune?
I'm making a parts washer out of a old metal lidded box, but it's not 100% 'watertight'.
I need a sealant to run round the inside of the seams that will resist parts washer fluid. It needs to be flexible because the metal will flex.
Not sure if I'll use a non-solvent cleaner, so I'm looking for a sealant to run round the sems that'll resist solvents.
Hylomar is no good because it's non-curing, so may wipe off.
Googling for solvent-resistant sealants gives results that either aren't solvent-resistant, don't cure, or are aircraft-grade and cost a fortune.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22349
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
Anyone know of a flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures (dries) and doesn't cost a fortune?
I'm making a parts washer out of a old metal lidded box, but it's not 100% 'watertight'.
I need a sealant to run round the inside of the seams that will resist parts washer fluid. It needs to be flexible because the metal will flex.
Not sure if I'll use a non-solvent cleaner, so I'm looking for a sealant to run round the sems that'll resist solvents.
Hylomar is no good because it's non-curing, so may wipe off.
Googling for solvent-resistant sealants gives results that either aren't solvent-resistant, don't cure, or are aircraft-grade and cost a fortune. |
"Solvent".....is the word that is a problem. Solvents (what we call solvents) are typically blends that can dissolve a wide range of polymers oils and greases. It's very hard to find straight rubber that resists a parts washing solvent much less a "sealant".
First, I would limit your parts washer solvents to either a water and surfactant based product (even then I would not bet on it because surfactant are diabolic in the way they work).....or a simple solvent like kerosene boosted with the Gunk brand additive.
So for sealant I would start with those that list to be for gasoline seals. One that comes to mind is Permatex Motoseal which is e collect for sealing flat gaskets for fuel tank outlets.
Similar ones ard Yamabond. Both of these are solvent based so they "dry".
If there have ever been greases, gear oils or certain parts washer solvents on the metals you are trying to seal and you use RTV type sealants you can have problems. Many silicones (depending on how they are catalyzed) have problems with residual sulfur. It prevents curing.
Ray |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17410
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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there's a reason parts washers are stamped in 1 piece
you are going to make one hell of a mess if you move ahead with your plan. might not be tomorrow or next week, but when it goes, you're going to regret it
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Yeah, I think this is a non-starter.
Thanks both.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 13960
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Can you weld up the seams?
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Can you weld up the seams? |
Don't think I can get the inside seams and corners clean enough. It was painted on the inside. Paint stripper got most of it off, but not sure the edges of the seams are clean enough to weld.
I'm getting ready to strip down a 36hp engine that I've had under the bench for years. Needed a parts washer that is big enough to comfortably take the crank, but small enough that it doesn't take up scarce real estate on or under my workbench.
I've got a lead on a used parts washer that is big enough and will likely work out about the same cost as converting this metal box.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Raymond73
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2010
Posts: 392
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Not environmental or health friendly, but lead is a common seam sealer back in the day. There's likely to be something on the market with a relatively low melting point and similar characteristics. Then paint over it.
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'70 Auto Stick Beetle
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raydog
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1201
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Try brazing using proper flux.
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Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS |
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markswagen
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018
Posts: 1312
Location: san diego
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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when l packed up and left england, l had to pay to dump my parts cleaner tank, l couldn't give it away.
and a 50 litre drum of cleaning solvent.
have a look on your local gumtree, even put a wanted ad.
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blankc72
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2007
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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This is what you need. Not terribly expensive & 30 minute working time with 30 hour cure time. Remains very slightly flexible after cured. Xylene will clean it up before it cures if it gets somewhere you don't want it. And wear gloves.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/09-...gINDfD_BwE |
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2368
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| blankc72 wrote: |
| Not terribly expensive |
$108.95
Only about twice the price of a brand new, purpose-built parts washer. Bargain. 
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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blankc72
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2007
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Not terribly expensive |
$108.95
Only about twice the price of a brand new, purpose-built parts washer. Bargain. |
You asked about a sealant, not a new parts washer |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22349
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| blankc72 wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Not terribly expensive |
$108.95
Only about twice the price of a brand new, purpose-built parts washer. Bargain. |
You asked about a sealant, not a new parts washer |
Thats an intesreting sealant. I am not quite sure I would use it for a parts washer.
This is the problem with rubbers/elastomers and sealants that causs people issues to wrap their heads around. That sealant is a two-part polysufide rubber.
Rubbers are chemically very exact as to what they work with. A great example of this is Viton. Fantastic with gasoline, lubricating oils and greases and a wide range of "specific" solvents....but you get it in brake fluid or glycol ethers and it dissolves. Likewise....EPDM....very ozone resistant, very UV resistant, works great with glycols and brake fluid...but freaking dissolves when you get it around VOC's, oils and greases.
That sealnt you suggested is a strange one.
It works EXCELLENT with gasoline, does very well with laquer thinner and a few other solvents....but works terrible with lubricating oils, motor oil, gear oil, ATF,....even olive oil turns it to mush.
In a parts washer, I would start to worry about what all is dissolved and loaded up in the solvent you are using in it when using that sealer.
All of that said....I had to get rid of my Harbor Freight parts washer when I left Des Moines. It worked great. They are ~$139 right now. Fits a VW crank no problem.
Even the crappy pump that people bitch about worked great and I wa using Kerosene + Gunk. No issues.
Another good way to get a solvent working sink is to buy a polypropylene laundry sink from Home Depot. There are no solvents taht will touch that. Its deep...big enough for an engine case. Simply thread a pipe bushing into the drain and put a ball valve on it. At the end of working, open the valve into a 5 gallon nucket.
But even those will set you back about $60 these days.
With a plastic sink, I would stay away from highly flammable solvents just in case they caught fire but Kerosene would be OK.
Ray |
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blankc72
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2007
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Not terribly expensive |
$108.95
Only about twice the price of a brand new, purpose-built parts washer. Bargain. |
You asked about a sealant, not a new parts washer |
Thats an intesreting sealant. I am not quite sure I would use it for a parts washer.
This is the problem with rubbers/elastomers and sealants that causs people issues to wrap their heads around. That sealant is a two-part polysufide rubber.
Rubbers are chemically very exact as to what they work with. A great example of this is Viton. Fantastic with gasoline, lubricating oils and greases and a wide range of "specific" solvents....but you get it in brake fluid or glycol ethers and it dissolves. Likewise....EPDM....very ozone resistant, very UV resistant, works great with glycols and brake fluid...but freaking dissolves when you get it around VOC's, oils and greases.
That sealnt you suggested is a strange one.
It works EXCELLENT with gasoline, does very well with laquer thinner and a few other solvents....but works terrible with lubricating oils, motor oil, gear oil, ATF,....even olive oil turns it to mush.
In a parts washer, I would start to worry about what all is dissolved and loaded up in the solvent you are using in it when using that sealer.
All of that said....I had to get rid of my Harbor Freight parts washer when I left Des Moines. It worked great. They are ~$139 right now. Fits a VW crank no problem.
Even the crappy pump that people bitch about worked great and I wa using Kerosene + Gunk. No issues.
Another good way to get a solvent working sink is to buy a polypropylene laundry sink from Home Depot. There are no solvents taht will touch that. Its deep...big enough for an engine case. Simply thread a pipe bushing into the drain and put a ball valve on it. At the end of working, open the valve into a 5 gallon nucket.
But even those will set you back about $60 these days.
With a plastic sink, I would stay away from highly flammable solvents just in case they caught fire but Kerosene would be OK.
Ray |
"CS3204 is a fuel resistant sealant for use on integral fuel tanks and pressurized cabins as well as other areas subject to contact with aircraft fuels, lubricants, oils, water and/or weathering."
Literally it's the first sentence on the web page. Also, first sentence on the technical bulletin put out by the manufacturer which is listed on the page I linked. AMS-S-8802 (MIL-S-8802) is the standard to which this sealant is made and the standard specifically states:
"high-temperature fuel resistant sealant intended for use on integral fuel tanks with excellent resistance to other fluids such as water, alcohols, synthetic oils, and petroleum-based hydraulic fluids."
I've never seen it fail due to exposure to any fluid found on any airframe & this sealant (& variants, some contain corrosion inhibitors) is used everywhere not just inside tanks.
To that end, this sealant is what is required for the original question that was asked. No upper price limit was mentioned. Personally, I would just buy a tank new or used. It doesn't matter. But that wasn't what was asked. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22349
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| blankc72 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
| blankc72 wrote: |
| Not terribly expensive |
$108.95
Only about twice the price of a brand new, purpose-built parts washer. Bargain. |
You asked about a sealant, not a new parts washer |
Thats an intesreting sealant. I am not quite sure I would use it for a parts washer.
This is the problem with rubbers/elastomers and sealants that causs people issues to wrap their heads around. That sealant is a two-part polysufide rubber.
Rubbers are chemically very exact as to what they work with. A great example of this is Viton. Fantastic with gasoline, lubricating oils and greases and a wide range of "specific" solvents....but you get it in brake fluid or glycol ethers and it dissolves. Likewise....EPDM....very ozone resistant, very UV resistant, works great with glycols and brake fluid...but freaking dissolves when you get it around VOC's, oils and greases.
That sealnt you suggested is a strange one.
It works EXCELLENT with gasoline, does very well with laquer thinner and a few other solvents....but works terrible with lubricating oils, motor oil, gear oil, ATF,....even olive oil turns it to mush.
In a parts washer, I would start to worry about what all is dissolved and loaded up in the solvent you are using in it when using that sealer.
All of that said....I had to get rid of my Harbor Freight parts washer when I left Des Moines. It worked great. They are ~$139 right now. Fits a VW crank no problem.
Even the crappy pump that people bitch about worked great and I wa using Kerosene + Gunk. No issues.
Another good way to get a solvent working sink is to buy a polypropylene laundry sink from Home Depot. There are no solvents taht will touch that. Its deep...big enough for an engine case. Simply thread a pipe bushing into the drain and put a ball valve on it. At the end of working, open the valve into a 5 gallon nucket.
But even those will set you back about $60 these days.
With a plastic sink, I would stay away from highly flammable solvents just in case they caught fire but Kerosene would be OK.
Ray |
"CS3204 is a fuel resistant sealant for use on integral fuel tanks and pressurized cabins as well as other areas subject to contact with aircraft fuels, lubricants, oils, water and/or weathering."
Literally it's the first sentence on the web page. Also, first sentence on the technical bulletin put out by the manufacturer which is listed on the page I linked. AMS-S-8802 (MIL-S-8802) is the standard to which this sealant is made and the standard specifically states:
"high-temperature fuel resistant sealant intended for use on integral fuel tanks with excellent resistance to other fluids such as water, alcohols, synthetic oils, and petroleum-based hydraulic fluids."
I've never seen it fail due to exposure to any fluid found on any airframe & this sealant (& variants, some contain corrosion inhibitors) is used everywhere not just inside tanks.
To that end, this sealant is what is required for the original question that was asked. No upper price limit was mentioned. Personally, I would just buy a tank new or used. It doesn't matter. But that wasn't what was asked. |
I work with plastics and adhesive for a living. I can't tell you how many times aerospace and mil-specs are treated as all encompassing .....and fail.....in other industries.
I have no doubt it is an excellent AEROSPACE sealer. However, virtually none of the aviation lubricants and hydraulic fluids....chemically match or are used in automotive.
Likewise, there are many solvents oils .....and surfactants.....we can use on cars that you cannot on aircraft.
I am quite familiar with polysulphide rubber. I can also tell you that there are too many lubricants that can and will make it fail.
Ray |
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 10588
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Get a large Rubbermaid storage container. They work great in a parts washer.
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
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GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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16CVs
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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Drop a heavy duty plastic bag in it. When you're done suck out the solvents and the solids stay in the bag.
Stacy
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23104
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Get a large Rubbermaid storage container. They work great in a parts washer.
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Stop bringing $10 solutions to $1000 problems.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22349
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost, flexible, solvent-resistant seam sealer that cures? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Get a large Rubbermaid storage container. They work great in a parts washer.
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Stop bringing $10 solutions to $1000 problems.
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Actually....
My greatest....best ....cleaning tool for a whole lot of jobs is this
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/h...lsrc=aw.ds
Not this exact brand but mine is a 20 or 25 gallon like this one. Heavy duty polypropylene. I can put large parts in it and there are just about 0 chemicals you will ever use that will eat it. I use it for phosphoric acid and muriatic acid washing of large parts.
I think I spent $20 on mine at Menards in Iowa
Ray |
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