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Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:05 am

Hey guys,
I almost have my sand rail finished and I don't have a title or bill of sale. I see that alot of sandrails here in Florida just use beetle titles. Is this really acceptable or is this stretching the law a bit? The DMV says I need a bill of sale on the buggy in order to title it as a sand rail and the guy at the scrap yard I bought it from doesn't even remember it. So my question is, If I were able to find a title for a late 60s beetle could i just say its a beetle and stick a plate on there?
Thanks in advance,
Tom

Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:45 am

Check this out...

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/custom-built-cars.php

http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intranet/dmv/Forms/BTR/Milpak/82040.pdf

Is there a VIN# on the pan or is your rail all custom built? If there is a VIN, you may be screwed. Who ever has the title owns the pan. The holder of the title could get his pan back... with all the goodies. Never never never buy a car without a title. It's nothing but trouble.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:32 am

Lotrat wrote:
Is there a VIN# on the pan or is your rail all custom built? If there is a VIN, you may be screwed. Who ever has the title owns the pan. The holder of the title could get his pan back... with all the goodies. Never never never buy a car without a title. It's nothing but trouble.

That only works if title (VIN) is still on record.... And "owner" is notified that his property is "recovered"....

Dale

Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:05 am

My experiences in Indiana over a lot of years had it VERY easy to get a title. Especially if the car is off the books. VIN check by the Police. Two forms to the DMV, five bucks and you have a title. Cali must be rougher...

Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:11 am

I've picked up 3 bugs without titles. Every time its been a VIN check and then pay them $ and they make you a new pink slip. All of the bugs have been free though. IDK how much Id pay for a bill of sale.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:11 am

are you looking to be street legal? if not, I know in Oregon you can get an orv sticker with just a vin, no title needed. ($10 for 2 years)

Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:33 pm

Thanks for the replys guys,
The sandrail has no vin number. The lady at the DMV wanted my to fill out a builders form, but i need a bill of sale for the front and rear end and engine. Like I said I have no Bill of sale. I'm wanting to get it street legal, but I would deffinately settle for a OHV title(do I need bill of sale for this?).

Also, Is it legal to use a beetle title even if the rail doesn't use a beetle frame, wouldn't that make it a homemade car?

Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:42 pm

Sell it to your dad and buy it back with a bill of sales.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:32 pm

Technically you are anot allowed to remove a VIN from a chassis and put it on another, but I don't know what is legally required to still be a car or a rusted out piece of scrap. They seem to be lenient, but just cause everybody does it, doesn't mean some cop on a bad day won't screw you over. Call the DMV and tell them you highly modified a beetle and want to move the VIN tag, see what they say.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:36 pm

Man,
it's even tougher in Pa, I'm still not sure what I'm going to do!

Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:32 pm

Hell my rail is registered as an ATV and yes it is street legal.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:40 pm

write your own bill of sale. Or have a friend do it.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:35 pm

DMV is just looking for a paper trail. Sell it to your dad and buy it back two legitimate notorized bill of sales. If you go the Beetle title route I would make sure the VW tunnel is in place with the VIN.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:45 pm

If you do register and insure it as a bug if you get into an accident your gonna have a hell of a time getting the insurance company to pay though.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:36 am

Had the same issue, the remaining componets on the rail didn't have a vin (the tunnel was cut off right at the torsion housing). I bought a clean title from a bug and had a vin plates made at a trophy shop which I rivited on what was remaining of the tunnel and near the LH side of the windshield. I informed the ins co it was a VW beetle modified as a Dunebuggy. Went down with the title and Bill of sale from the title purchase and purchased a tag. Ins co knows it a dunebuggy and DMV has the paper trail. A cop could get nasty about it if he really wanted to but I'll be driving it on the road and all the street legal gear will be on the vehicle. Only other option for me was to go through the builder route and it would be licensed as a 2008 vehicle requiring full emissions check.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:59 am

plenty of companys will insure a dune bugy. I have 100/300 full coverage and replacement cost built into the policy. cost 17$ a month. Chrome insurance. for kit cars and custom cars.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:14 am

$17 a month! They made me go with utility insurance because noone wanted to touch it. Cost me $1500.00 for a year and I only get 5- 6 month out of it, plus I had to pay up front for the whole year.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:17 am

I know, it was a great deal. I am in NM now not CA so that will change the cost some. In ca I was paying 20$ a month with mecury but it did not cover theft.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:15 pm

Auto cub .... :D way better than dealing with the dmv.

just my 2 cents i am in the process of getting all the paper work foe 2 pans i picked up.

Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:02 pm

I am a rail owner in Florida. I have my rail registered and insured as a 71 bug. 99% of the time its not an issue, and is far easier to do than go through the "legal" way of registering and titling as a custom built vehicle. Technically, what I'm doing is illegal since the frame is not a VW, but most cops don't really care, especially if you aren't showing your ass on the road.

As far as insurance, my sister and a few of my friends work in the automobile insurance industry. I asked them how the insurance company would react if they see my "71 VW". They said the insurance company will pay the claim, but may drop you. The only way they can get out of paying the claim is by claiming the "contract" (policy) void and reimbursing you for the whole amount of premiums you've paid for that vehicle since you started the policy. Of course I don't have comp/collision on the rail, just PIP and liability.

Where in Florida are you?