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Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:15 am

Mallory now appears to be assembling their distributors in Mexico and I have heard rumors of quality problems.

(Please note that this is incorrect. Mallory moved their manufacturing to Cleveland Ohio, NOT Mexico.)

I'd like to hear what problems people are having with newer Mallory distributors and what they did to fix the problems.

Specifically Mallory distributors with the H suffix at the end of the part number on the distributor tag. These have the "YH" advance system.

Scott Novak

Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:38 am

Scott,
My experience is limited to the 4554101 part number dizzys, mechanical advance.

The issues are abundant, they start at the drive tang as the roll pin for it is sloppy and this causes several degrees of spark scatter in the units.

I have dissected several older dizzys, some as new as mid 2007 and others as old as 1999 and found that the new units (10/07 on) have significant variances in the advance mechanism compared to the older units, these issues have related to sticky advance and erratic idle speeds with initial advance all over the place. The advance plates are thinner material now and appear to be stamped out with medieval procedures compared to the older units.

The new rotors have had the optical pick up windows in the wrong position and some are non-existent altogether.

I called Mallory and wrote them a very detailed letter with picture references and told them I would do what ever it took to assist them with making these units a quality item again. No replies and on the phone they denied any issues with the units so I dropped them like a hot potato and gave the jack ass on the other end of the line a real big earful of reality that I am sure he didn't appreciate.

Mallory doesn't build engines and they have very little interface with these units once they leave the manufacturing facility. They should have enough sense to note that I have bought and used THOUSANDS of these units over the years and they should realize that guys like you and I should not be pissed off at them as we can be their biggest proponent or their worst enemy. (and we know more about their product than they do)

I have had issues with the entire Mallory line this year including FI fuel pumps dying after 3 hours of use, Hyfire boxes taking a crap in 30 minutes and even bad ballast resistors. Someone at that company needs to pull the manufacturing back north of the border or the whole line will turn into just another pile of shit that may as well be made in Taiwan.

This year we lost a race because of a Mallory distributor and when our car gets taken off the track because of a component failure that part never goes back on- the only stupid mistake is the one you make twice.

I have heard from V8 guys that the issues are present there as well....

I noted these issues and stopped selling the units back in March, some people that sell them still haven't pulled their line and haven't seen issues but thats probably because they don't use 2 of them per week and dyno the piss out of them.

I LOVED the Mallory for many years, now I hate the bastards. How dare them deny any issues!

Scott,
I have not used any of the units like you are modifying, but I would like to do some research with them and get some comparatives as it appears they are still quality units. Unfortunately they won't work with a majority of my engines due to interference issues.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:51 am

Jake have you decided to use the megajolt junior crank fired ignition in place of the Mallory.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:12 am

Jake Raby wrote: Scott, I have not used any of the units like you are modifying, but I would like to do some research with them and get some comparatives as it appears they are still quality units.
Actually, all of the distributors that I have modified have been manufactured mid 2007 or earlier and I haven't seen the kind of problems that have been described. All of the distributors that I modify use the YH advance system, which is the same as in the 4554101H, so any problems that you have seen will apply to the distributors that I modify.

The most serious problem that I have seen with H suffix distributors is that the pivot pin on the advance plate that the vacuum advance canister rod connects to was not staked in the advance plate at all! If this pin comes loose, the spark timing can advance or retard. Advancing the spark timing isn't quite so bad as you might hear the detonation and realize that you have a problem to fix. But if the distributor retards, there will not be any detonation to warn you of a problem, and you are likely to overheat. I have only seen this problem in one vacuum advance distributor, however I ALWAYS disassemble a Mallory vacuum advance distributor to check to see if this pin was properly staked in place.

While not a problem per se, the small clip that holds the rod from the vacuum canister on the pivot pin is small and you must be very careful to snap this in place properly.

Jake Raby wrote: The new rotors have had the optical pick up windows in the wrong position and some are non-existent altogether.
This puzzles me as the shutterwheel is keyed to the rotor. I can't imagine how someone could screw this up, but as I have worked in production facilities, I know that anything can and will happen.

Jake Raby wrote: The issues are abundant, they start at the drive tang as the roll pin for it is sloppy and this causes several degrees of spark scatter in the units.
I've wondered if it would be beneficial to replace this pin on older distributors as I have seen some wear on these pins.

Jake Raby wrote: .......Hyfire boxes taking a crap in 30 minutes...........
The most likely time for any electronics to fail is within the first 100 hours of use. But I've looked inside Mallory ignition boxes and the all important potting compound is not there. Assuming that a company assembles the electronics reliably, adding potting compound drastically improves the ability to withstand vibration and it also improves the cooling of the individual components and waterproofs the electronics.

I just opened up a Mallory active power filter for the Unilite distributors and all 6 of the component solder joints were substandard by US electronic industry standards, and should not have been shipped out the door. The component leads were quite oxidized. It is critical that component leads are clean and free of any significant oxide before being soldered in place. A quality manufacturer will pay attention to the shelf life of their components, and after sitting on the shelf for an extended period, they will clean the oxides from the components before soldering them, or scrap the components and buy fresh new components without any substantial oxidation.

It's obvious that Mallory does not have any ISO certification. (International Standard Organization)

Jake Raby wrote: The advance plates are thinner material now and appear to be stamped out with medieval procedures compared to the older units.
This concerns me a lot, as it isn't something that you can easily fix.

Scott Novak

Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:57 am

Scott, can you actually undo the things that are wrong in these newer Unilites? I know you shouldn't HAVE TO fix something that's new to make it work like it should. I was just wondering if they're a lost cause altogether.

If I wanted timing scatter, I'd get an 009. I always did like all of the functions the Unilite had and I hope they don't end up like that.

And what exactly is potting compound in the Hyfire boxes that you're talking about? I have a brand new one still in the box...

Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:19 am

Potting compounds are usually silicone or epoxy based and are often mineral filled to improve heat transfer.

By filling the enclosure with potting compound it seals the electronic components and improves vibration resistance. The potting compound conducts heat better than air so the electronic components inside run cooler.

I haven't seen any Mallory electronics that have been potted. I have heard that MSD doesn't pot their electronics either.

A conformal coating over the circuit board will help give some corrosion resistance, but that is about all. Not much works as well as potting compound.

I find it difficult to take automotive electronics seriously unless they have been potted.

Many ignition coils are potted in epoxy. The older Jacobs ignition coils were first potted with epoxy and then they put the coil into an extruded aluminum case and potted the entire ignition coil in silicone potting compound. That's how they were able to rate their ignition coils good for over 82 Gs of vibrational force.

Scott Novak

Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:21 am

I had one of the old ones from about 7 years ago and recently got one of the new ones about 6 months ago. So far I haven't noticed any problems or any difference, but maybe I got lucky. I have about 500 miles on it so far.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:27 am

SkrapMetal wrote: Scott, can you actually undo the things that are wrong in these newer Unilites? I know you shouldn't HAVE TO fix something that's new to make it work like it should. I was just wondering if they're a lost cause altogether.
I haven't seen a Mallory distributor manufactured much later than early 2007, so I don't know if the newer Mallory distributors are a lost cause or not. Jake may be able to answer that question better than I.

Most of the Mallory distributors that I have worked on have been used or NOS.

Scott Novak

Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:59 am

The issues were so great that we could not make adequate changes for any reasonable amount of money. The major contributing factor was the advance mechanisms.

I haven't used the vacuum advance dizzy since 2003 when it cost me two bus engines back to back when the advance lever failed and the spark retarded suddenly. I also never saw any big gains with them that made them worth the extra money and didn't fancy the added complexity associated with tuning them.

I have a serious problem with any company that will sell items that are sub-standard and then deny issues when we have noted them on multiple occasions and have gathered data and reference material to substantiate our claims. I refuse to continue using (and recommending) components and then re-engineering them to make them function as they should. I never thought we'd be saying these things about Mallory- one of the oldest names in American Speed Parts. Nothing ever stays the same, this isn't the first good part to come and go and it won't be the last- thats why we must constantly observe every component we use always watchful for trends that signify imminent issues.

I'd much rather spend our time, money and effort on developing a cost effective direct ignition system or a completely new distributor- if I have to design something, it may as well be a new product.

Scott, I'd like to evaluate one of your units and see what it has to offer.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:52 am

I have a unilite that I'm intending on using on my fresh 2275 build. I'm curious to know how to determine the manufacture date and where it was assembled. If it is one of the distributors in question I'll be looking for something to take it's place. I'have spent too much time and money as it is on this engine just to have a sub standard component F things up.
Thanks DS

Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:22 am

c.ruber wrote: I'm curious to know how to determine the manufacture date and where it was assembled.
Look on the box for a date code by the bar code. It will be a 6 digit number if it has one. Example: 051106 would be May 11th, 2006

Some Unilite modules also had a date stamped into the label.

Scott Novak

Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:03 pm

Oh yes there it is!! Mine was assembled on Nov 5 '05. AM I SAFE??? I know this is a hard question to answer. I'm just wondering what a QUALITY alternative will be now that there are so many problems with Mallory. Scott, I've read your write ups on the distributor you modify. It's a bit out of my budget though. From what I've heard a crank trigger is also expensive alternative. What to do???

Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:32 pm

Any dizzy prior to 8/07 should be fine. The older the better.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:17 pm

Thanks Jake. I'll be keeping an eye out for any ignition product you may produce to compete with the choices we currently have for the aircooled engine. Thanks Doug Stewart.

Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:54 pm

c.ruber wrote: Scott, I've read your write ups on the distributor you modify. It's a bit out of my budget though. From what I've heard a crank trigger is also expensive alternative. What to do???
One thing to do is keep your eyes open for bargains on Mallory distributors on the Samba, Ebay and Craig's list. When you see a bargain you need to move quickly before someone else buys it.

Scott Novak

Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:03 am

Mr. Raby,

I have received a copy of a forum posting by yourself and Scott Novak, pertaining to our “Mallory” Unilite distributors. In the posting from Mr. Novak, he states that the Mallory distributors are assembled in Mexico and has heard of quality problems.
First of all Mallory has never had any distributors assembled in Mexico. Mallory distributors have all been assembled in the United States since 1925. From 1925 thru 1935 in Toledo Ohio, from 1935 thru 1969 in Detroit Michigan, from 1969 thru 2007 in Carson City Nevada and, from 2007 thru present in Cleveland Ohio.
From the late eighties thru the early nineties only one component was made in Mexico, the condenser for a point type distributor. No other part for any other Mallory distributor has been made in Mexico.
In reference to the rumors of quality problems, we have not had a significant number of returns on any of our Volkswagen distributors. Unfortunately with any manufacturing process there are failures found in the field, and we try to limit that by having every Mallory distributor tested as part of our assembly process.
The “H” suffix that was used after 1992 and was to identify distributors that had the new “YH” mechanical advance, rather than the earlier “YL”, “YS”, or “YT” mechanical advances.
In your posting, you have experienced issues with the 4554101 Unilite distributors and describe the mechanical advance as dizzy. You also feel the drive dog and roll pin are sloppy and this causes spark scatter. You have also noted that there are significant differences in the advance mechanisms and that you are experiencing sticking of the advance and erratic idle with the initial advance all over the place. Also you seem to have issue with our manufacturing processes and the shutter wheel for our optical pick-up and you received less than satisfactory feedback from our technical department.
The issues you are experiencing with the advance may be caused by the engine idle speed being too close to the advance cut-in rpm which will cause the idle to be erratic. This cannot affect the initial advance, because initial timing is where the distributor is timed in the engine in reference to the crank position and has no relationship to the mechanical advance. We offer our VW point type distributors with two different curves and our standard “01” curve for all the others. The “01” curve starts at 1000 rpm with 28 deg @ 3000 rpm, the “09” curve starts at 800 rpm with 22 deg @ 2500 rpm. The older “YL” is completely different than our newer “YH” advance. Both advances are completely adjustable, and because of the design of the “YH” advance it has less rotating mass. The advance plates are thinner in the “YH” advance but there are two of them which will allow you to more accurately set your total timing, where the old “YL” only had one.
The drive dog on the end of the distributor shaft should rock slightly and have some up-and-down movement, but it should not rotate. This movement is so that it will align properly and not cause wear on the other parts. The spring around the drive dog is to hold the pin from sliding out. We have been making these for air-cooled Porsche and Volkswagens since 1953, and our tolerances are the same as Bosch.
As far as our medieval procedures, we do manufacture these in-house on our punch presses, and some of our competitors purchase theirs from China, so if making them in the USA is medieval, we prefer to do so.
The shutter wheels for our Unilite distributors have not changed since the mid-seventies. They are the same for all right-hand and left hand distributors, the only difference is the number of slots for 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines, and it isn’t possible to get them without any slots. The slots are a permanent part of the mold and cannot be removed.
Mallory may not build engines on a regular basis, but we have and still do for our own research. We built one in the late seventies for an article in Dune Buggies & Hot VW’s, we built a complete Bug with an 1835 in the early eights for an article in Hot VW’s. We also tuned our customer’s engines on our Dyno while we were in Carson City, one of which was a turbo-charged 2300 which put out over 400 hp to the rear wheels. And we have our distributor, ignition box and coil on a buggy in this years Baja 1000.
I hope that this has answered some your questions, and though I do not know who you spoke to or where your letters went, but we do want to know when our customers are having issues with our products, so that we can determine the cause and correct them.

-Mallory Tech

Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:58 am

I am glad to see that you have visited this forum and have made this post. I don't know why it took a public posting such as this one to raise your attention level, especially when I have sent more than one detailed letter to your company.

despote manufacturing processes, where things are made and etc, all of that is beside the point that we have used these distributors for many years without any issues and then all of a sudden the issues occurred and have remained consistent for the better part of 14 months. I work with these units on a daily basis and we have notes on the issues and how we have had to overcome them.

I certainly understand how the advance rate and initial advance settings can create idle speed inconsistencies, and I know how to identify these issues and overcome them- This is not my gripe.

My major point of concern is the amount of distributors tat are having issues with spark scatter, even when held at a consistent RPM at as little as 4,000 RPM. In times past the scatter of these distributors was non-existant, thats not the case today.

I am comparing your product of yesterday to the current offewring, and for the record I do not care where it is made or how it is made or who makes it. I would like an explanation of why I was told information by your staff that you say is not true and also I'd like to know why my dialogue was never addressed by your company.

Quote: Mallory may not build engines on a regular basis, but we have and still do for our own research.
I hope that means that these units are constantly the subject of random testing in a VW engine. I also hope this means that you'll listen to those who use this product everyday and have for the better part of TEN YEARS as the ONLY DISTRIBUTOR that they equip their engines with.

We constantly scrutenize every part that comprises our engines, whether thats something made under my roof, or yours.

The degradation of the unit over the past 18 months is very clear to us. All your company can base their failure rate upon is the return percentages for the units but you must understand that some of the air cooled VW world is heavily populated by the DIY enthusiast and some of these people can be driving their car around with spark scatter and never even know it. For a unit to be returned to you means that generally the engine will not run and the unit is forced to be returned, most of these "gripes" do not result in absolute failure of your product and due to that can create tunability issues that could be confused/ masked by the end user as a carburetor problem or some other sub system thats not working properly.

In our case we were able to make the repairs for lots of these "gripes" and only sent back a few units. Your team repaired these with no question, and I do appreciate that.

Failure rates don't speak the entire truth in an instance like this because a sticky or inconsistent advance may not be noted by the user as a "failure" of the dizzy that necessitates the return of the unit AND this might be found after the unit s out of warranty, rendering the unit thrown in the scrap pile without being returned.

So, in summary;
Your product in times past was the best thing since sliced bread for our engines and provided a drop in replacement that made the adjustability of the ignition curve on our engines significantly better. Today your unit is still better than most, but it has inherent issues that need to be remedied for my ompany to install these into our engines in the future.

If you would like to get a copy of my letter that I sent to your company or would like to begin dialogue that could be used to address these issues based on our assistance please email me at [email protected]

I appreciate your forum post and what seems to appear at this point as a dedication to quality.

Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:01 pm

Memphis12 wrote: First of all Mallory has never had any distributors assembled in Mexico. Mallory distributors have all been assembled in the United States since 1925. From 1925 thru 1935 in Toledo Ohio, from 1935 thru 1969 in Detroit Michigan, from 1969 thru 2007 in Carson City Nevada and, from 2007 thru present in Cleveland Ohio.
From the late eighties thru the early nineties only one component was made in Mexico, the condenser for a point type distributor. No other part for any other Mallory distributor has been made in Mexico.
I stand corrected. I was apparently misinformed about where you relocated your manufacturing facilities to.

Memphis12 wrote: The drive dog on the end of the distributor shaft should rock slightly and have some up-and-down movement, but it should not rotate. This movement is so that it will align properly and not cause wear on the other parts. The spring around the drive dog is to hold the pin from sliding out. We have been making these for air-cooled Porsche and Volkswagens since 1953, and our tolerances are the same as Bosch.
It is impossible to have the same tolerances as Bosch, as you use a floating pin whereas Bosch uses a pressed in pin through the drive dog.

Memphis12 wrote: The shutter wheels for our Unilite distributors have not changed since the mid-seventies. They are the same for all right-hand and left hand distributors, the only difference is the number of slots for 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines, and it isn’t possible to get them without any slots. The slots are a permanent part of the mold and cannot be removed.
Even though the shutterwheel is keyed, that doesn't preclude the possibility of the shutterwheel being forced onto the rotor incorrectly.

One problem that I have seen with nearly every Comp 9000 distributor that I have examined is that the keyway in the upper rotor shaft is NOT deburred and it shaves the plastic of the key inside the rotor allowing the rotor to shift on the rotor shaft which affects the rotor phasing.

The photo below is of a brand new Comp 9000 distributor rotor as received on the distributor

A slight deburring of the upper rotor shaft keyway prevents this from happening and the fit remains tight. A person unaware of this problem will repeatedly shave the key inside the rotor every time they reinstall the rotor and the fit becomes sloppier.

I also have a 2354109 distributor with a YL advance that has a defective distributor shaft assembly that will not allow a full range of advance limit. The advance limit adjustment key will also not work properly. The pivot pins for the counterweights are not in line with the distributor shaft, and the distance between the pivot pins is not equal, which is the cause of the problem. There is no way for me to correct this problem. This is obviously a manufacturing defect and this distributor has NEVER worked correctly. Will Mallory stand behind it's products and replace this defective distributor shaft assembly? If you unable to repair or replace this with another YL shaft assembly, a YH shaft and advance assembly would fit and be an acceptable replacement. Photos below:

You can use a straight edge on the photo and see that the pivot pins are not inline with the rotor shaft, and you can also measure that the pins are not equally spaced from the rotor shaft.

Scott Novak
[email protected]

Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:01 am

Update:
As of today, Monday 24 November @ 0900 there has been no further contact from Mallory or their representative that replied to this thread.

I was hopeful that he would promptly reply via email so we could work on making the changes necessary to the Uni-Lite.

Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:18 am

Shame, I had the cash ready and waiting for one,as it was the only good adjustable distributor with vacuum available.

I will (and i feel many others who remain silent) be no longer purchasing a unilite. :cry: