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Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:09 am

What fuel is recommended for these old engines? 1969 type 2. high octane?

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:13 am

Stock?

Regular 87 octane is fine.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:29 am

depends on the compression ratio the last engine builder put into the engine. If it is stock then regular will work. If it is higher compression as some people suggest then premium. I will tell you that we have a fairly low compression Ford Sable wagon from 2004 designed for regular. I used regular once and the engine performed so poorly we went to mid-grade where it works fine. Personally I would never burn regular in any car, mid-grade is the least I would burn. Fuels have changed a lot since these buses were made. The molecules used to cool and lubricate the engine can no longer be used, and other things have been substituted instead. Regardless what grade you use, make sure it is a Top Tier fuel. That trade association guarantees it meets certain standards. Not all fuels do.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:50 am

I have run regular in my cars for somewhere around 1 1/2 million miles at this point and they have always run fine on it, excepting that ethanol laced fuel will cause problems during hot weather and/or if you don't burn through a tank of fuel every two weeks or so. During the hottest days of summer I will run ethanol free premium to get better hot restarts. If I am going to let a rig sit I also will try to run through a couple of tanks of ethanol free premium to get most of the ethanol out of the system.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:44 pm

Run non ethanol fuel. Whatever grade is available (usually premium).

Why, ethanol is not kind to the many of the elastomers in the fuel system plus it absorbs water which will corrode the metal parts.

Since I switched to non-ethanol fuel in my 1970's cars, I have noticed better performance and less crud in the fuel system.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:57 pm

Wildthings wrote: I have run regular in my cars for somewhere around 1 1/2 million miles at this point and they have always run fine on it, excepting that ethanol laced fuel will cause problems during hot weather and/or if you don't burn through a tank of fuel every two weeks or so. During the hottest days of summer I will run ethanol free premium to get better hot restarts. If I am going to let a rig sit I also will try to run through a couple of tanks of ethanol free premium to get most of the ethanol out of the system.
Mike, many places cannot get ethanol free fuels unless it is racing fuel at $15 a gallon.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:33 pm

SGKent wrote: Wildthings wrote: I have run regular in my cars for somewhere around 1 1/2 million miles at this point and they have always run fine on it, excepting that ethanol laced fuel will cause problems during hot weather and/or if you don't burn through a tank of fuel every two weeks or so. During the hottest days of summer I will run ethanol free premium to get better hot restarts. If I am going to let a rig sit I also will try to run through a couple of tanks of ethanol free premium to get most of the ethanol out of the system.
Mike, many places cannot get ethanol free fuels unless it is racing fuel at $15 a gallon.

Sad. I am fortunate that I have numerous locations.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:30 pm

California has a low carbon fuel standard that is E10 as long as ethanol is available. It will become E15 if the Legislature gets its way. Right now it isn't approved here yet as the testing phase is not complete.

All I know is that when I dropped from 89 octane to 87 octane in the Sable it pinged and hesitated like crazy every time I needed power, although the engine was designed for it. Pinging is like 1000 little hammers pounding on the rings and destroys an engine. I would not wish that on anyone.

I burned a hole in a piston in my 1971 bus once due to a combination of advance and low octane fuel, and won't go there again.

Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:58 am

SGKent wrote: California has a low carbon fuel standard that is E10 as long as ethanol is available. It will become E15 if the Legislature gets its way. Right now it isn't approved here yet as the testing phase is not complete.

I've seen two E15 (not E85) gas stations close by me. It's always 20 cents less than the others.

Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:09 am

heimlich wrote: SGKent wrote: California has a low carbon fuel standard that is E10 as long as ethanol is available. It will become E15 if the Legislature gets its way. Right now it isn't approved here yet as the testing phase is not complete.

I've seen two E15 (not E85) gas stations close by me. It's always 20 cents less than the others.

And worth 50 cents less. :-(

Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:46 am

Ethanol is a smaller molecule which means less BTU per gallon. It is less expensive because it gives less mileage. When we have gotten non-ethanol gas in other states, our mileage typically goes up 20%. The irony is that there was a VERY detailed peer reviewed scientific review last year on ethanol in fuels, and the conclusion is that using it produces more carbon in the atmosphere than not using it, and its production is poisoning the land and water. I am not making that up. I thought it was helping until all the factors were considered - loss of habitat, contaminants in the soil and water, carbon cost to grow and harvest the corn. It is a big gift to some of the large farms that grow corn like that owned by Warren Buffett's son, according to a video news article a couple years ago.

Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:16 pm

SGKent wrote: Ethanol is a smaller molecule which means less BTU per gallon. It is less expensive because it gives less mileage. When we have gotten non-ethanol gas in other states, our mileage typically goes up 20%. The irony is that there was a VERY detailed peer reviewed scientific review last year on ethanol in fuels, and the conclusion is that using it produces more carbon in the atmosphere than not using it, and its production is poisoning the land and water. I am not making that up. I thought it was helping until all the factors were considered - loss of habitat, contaminants in the soil and water, carbon cost to grow and harvest the corn. It is a big gift to some of the large farms that grow corn like that owned by Warren Buffett's son, according to a video news article a couple years ago.

It's an illusion because it is grown. To grow corn you need land. That land is fertilized. You then have to harvest. Once harvested you have to process it in order to get the ethanol. All of those steps produce waste. Oil you drill once and it goes through a pipeline.

Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:33 pm

FWIW

You can make a car run on anything that burns.

There are several issueS to be addressed when you use ethanol.

1) Ethanol attacks elastomers (rubber) in the fuel system. Any rubber part in contact with the fuel thats not Viton suffers degradation and sooner or later, thats an expensive problem.

2) Ethanol is hygroscopic. Moisture absorbed by ethanol-laden fuel will corrode any ferrous parts in the fuel system and the Fuel Distributors are particularly vulnerable.

3) Pure gasoline has a 14.7/1 air fuel ratio for proper combustion. E10 has a 14/1 air fuel ratio. Pure ethanol is something like 9/1. This means you need to modify your fuel delivery system to make a much richer mixture.

4) 1.5 gallons of ethanol has the same energy content as 1.0 gallon of gasoline. This means that you need to use more ethanol per mile to make the same power.

Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:27 pm

Let use one of the other ethanol vs gas topics.