TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:35 pm

Hey y'all...

So I hope to get some expert opinions, or at least experienced-person opinions. I'm 6'2", male, broad build, 205 pounds. My wife is 6'3", 300+ pounds, pear-shaped. (Yup, I got lucky.) We have two kids, 5yo and 3yo.

I have wanted an old-style VW Bus for about 20 years. (Had a chance to buy one for $600 in 2002 and I didn't. "Regrets, I've had a few...") When I was in college, I remember being stunned by the cavernous interior room in my friend's 1985 Vanagon. My wife and I test-drove a Bus a few years back and it did feel kind of small, but maybe they can be customized to fit taller people? I knew a guy who was 6'9" and thought it would be hilarious to drive the smallest car he could find. He bought an original Austin Mini, and messed with the seats so that he could fit. If a 6'9" dude can fit in an old Mini, surely a delightfully wide 6'3" woman can fit in an old Bus.

My older son has been on me lately... "Can we get a Volkswagen Bus?" I'm not entirely positive how or why he's fixating on this vehicle, but maybe I have focused him on it by being a little too good at the Fillmore voice... and buying that set of Maisto die-cast cars because it had a VW Bus in it... and maybe it's just that cool. I think my wife is kind of on board with the idea too.

My main concern about the Bus is safety. It seems like a tin can with very little in the name of safety features, even in the later models. I have done quite a bit of searching online to find information on safety features in the original Bus along the way, and all I've come up with is that VW started focusing on occupant safety after Ralph Nader published "Unsafe At Any Speed" in 1968 or whenever it was. I haven't been able to find crash test videos, safety specs, anything. I found a stability test video from 1965, but they made the Bus through 1979 (2013 in Brazil).

I've found crash test videos, and VW promotional videos, for the Vanagon. It seems to be a relatively well-made vehicle where safety is concerned. It seems also to have the benefit of being a bit faster, especially once they started using the Wasserboxer, and it also appears bigger.

But... it's just not the iconic Bus.

I consider myself a huge hippie, and my wife isn't far behind. My heart says Bus, but my brain says Vanagon. (I'm not yet positive how my son feels about the Vanagon.) It seems that the Vanagon has the edge in safety, while the Bus has the edge in "cool". Speed and acceleration: Vanagon. Ease of working on it: Bus. (Or am I wrong?)

I'm basically looking for reasons for my heart to like the Vanagon more, or for my brain to like the Bus more. Maybe the Vanagon is seen as being as cool as the Bus? I read that there is a whole Vanagon community, and maybe this is it. There'd have to be a Bus community too... where would I fit better? That's what I hope to find out.

Let's consider a later-model Bus, like a late-1970's American model or a Brazilian model up through 1998 (since it'd have to be 25 years old to import it into the US). Are they really deathtraps like they seem, or were there real safety improvements made along the way so that your knees might actually survive a head-on at 35 mph? I figure that any Bus that still exists never got totaled in a wreck, and also that I wouldn't be driving a Bus on the interstate. The joy is in the journey. Appeal to my brain on the Bus. (Don't worry about the older "splitties". The splitty versions I can afford are either basket cases or unattractive low-number-of-windows models, so I'd go for a later one, at least for right now.)

As for the Vanagon, appeal to my heart. Show me how it is, or could be, as hippie-cool as a Bus. I know it could be painted to look like a hippie bus. I'm sure it would carry more musical equipment (my wife and I are both musicians). Looking forward to talking VW's with some people. I actually first fixated on the VW Bug when I was 2, due to one starting up and scaring the crap out of me when I was walking behind it in a parking lot.

Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:45 pm

Vanagon people love their Vangons.

Bay Bus people love their Bay.

Split Bus people love their Split.

If you like old hippie.... get s Split.

If you like to camp and and more power... get a Bay.

If you want something more modern... get a Vanagon.

If you want modern, powerful and reliable.. get a Vanagon with a Subaru engine.

Just my opinion... others will vary.

Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:45 pm

the vanagon is superior to the Bay in every way except in 'nostalgic style'

it depends on if you are reigned by style or function..

each branch of the VW tree has it's die hard followers..
but more have jumped up from Bay to Van than from Van to Bay....

I own both and while the Bay is cute, great for the local 'scene' I'm just NOT taking it across country like I will my van.. it's not even close which is more comfortable to drive once you're in the seat for more than 30 minutes or over 55mph.

for a "full sized" family of 4 I would certainly recommend a vanagon westy/Weekender first and foremost...

but really it's all on you, what YOU plan to do with it, what YOU care about other's thinking you look like in it..

how & where are you planning to use it... and do note that's just as of right now.. once you've had one for a while your needs/plans change as quick as the kids age...

watch some family trip reports...
there's great ones in each specific forum..
most everyone makes do with what they have... but asking and lookin around 1st is always sound advice... same as a complete and thorough pre-purchase inspection... they aren't cheap and cost of ownership only goes up once you own it.

Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:56 pm

While it's not "hippie cool"... I could be talked into this:

I just couldn't justify the cost... $$$$$$

BTW, in 1963 my grandparents bought a new 63 Westy and traveled around the country for 18 months. They lived in it full time and finally settled in San Diego.

Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:49 pm

The Vanagon or T3 is the first Bus made with modern manfacturing methods , which does is to the longevity vs the Bay.

It’s cooler than either a Bay or a Solit because it’s reliable

Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:04 am

I am the same build as you, very hard time seeing out of a split without being hunched over, own now and have owned lots of bay's, like the fit and the ride, never had a Vanagon.

Go to a show and maybe a few split owners will allow you to do a test fit sit.

For Abscate, reliability has nothing to do with cool. The only cool Vanagons have going for them is on the inside with the AC on.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:28 am

Yeah but don't you want the 911 of vans?

Quote: What we have here is the Porsche 911 of vans. The Vanagon goes down the road with a car-like assuredness that's never existed in vehicles of this type before. Once you get used to being seated a couple of stories above the pavement, you can slice through twisty roads with abandon. Its steering is amply quick, and even has plenty of road feel and a strong sense of center. Bumps, even in the middle of corners, don't have a prayer of deflecting the Vanagon off course.

giggle.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32437946/tested-1980-volkswagen-vanagon-l/

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:39 am

steve244 wrote: Yeah but don't you want the 911 of vans?

Quote: What we have here is the Porsche 911 of vans. The Vanagon goes down the road with a car-like assuredness that's never existed in vehicles of this type before. Once you get used to being seated a couple of stories above the pavement, you can slice through twisty roads with abandon. Its steering is amply quick, and even has plenty of road feel and a strong sense of center. Bumps, even in the middle of corners, don't have a prayer of deflecting the Vanagon off course.

giggle.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32437946/tested-1980-volkswagen-vanagon-l/
No this is.. the B32
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-porsche-b32-i...w-existed/

Quote: The Porsche B32 Is The Coolest 911-Engined Van You Never Knew Existed

But if you want Hippie Cool and fast, then...

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:49 am

Glenn wrote:
But if you want Hippie Cool and fast, then...

:thumbsup:

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:53 am

EmberiHippie wrote:
My main concern about the Bus is safety.

maybe a Sprinter would suit your needs better?

These VW busses are more like a car/hobby all in one. I haven't ever owned one but I think the Vanogon would be closest to what would tick the boxes for you.
imho

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:58 am

If you want safe, then you want a modern vehicle.

Got hit by a 60,000# garbage truck and pushed into a F150 at a light... I walked away. Not sure the result would of been the same if I were in a Vanagon/Bay/Split.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:24 am

Thanks for your replies. I know that if I had a Bus, I wouldn't take it on the interstate. It seems that, like a bicycle, the joy is in the journey. Frankly, there are times when I wish I could find joy in my journeys. Right now I drive a 2008 Toyota Sienna, and while it still gets me reliably where I want to go at almost 227,000 miles, I just don't think it'd be the same if I were to do it up like a hippie van. Somehow the flower children of the late '60s and early '70s were able to take a few-year-old VW Bus and make it look super cool. I don't see how a few-year-old anything could be a viable hippie-cool vehicle these days. (The closest any vehicle could come would be a Prius, or a real school bus.)

Did the (Type 2) Bus get away with being a death trap in its time because vehicles generally moved slower? The only knowledge I have of speed limits from the '60s is a line from a documentary movie where Neal Cassady said, "Welcome to New Jersey, speed 50!" Even before the maximum speed limit was set at 55 in 1974 or whenever, I imagine that there were few to no roads that had a speed limit of 70. A lot of cars couldn't comfortably do 70 in those days. (My dad had a 1982 Chevette that could never top 69. We always joked that it'd blow up if it reached 70.)

So I wouldn't expect to have to take a 70 mph head-on in a Bus.

I really wish there were a way for me to rent these vehicles for a day or two, so that I could see what it'd be like to own them. Any of y'all know anything about services, preferably in or around Northeast Ohio, that rent out such vehicles?

And what do y'all know of the difference in the "Bus" and "Vanagon" communities of people? I will confess to trying to find "my tribe", and it sure ain't easy. I'm as anti-establishment as they get, and part of me has a strong desire to flaunt that as often as I can get away with flaunting it.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:34 am

I've had a '63 23 window Samba, a '71 Bay Window, & currently a '78 Bay Window. I'm 6'-2"+ and have never felt cramped in any of them. As far as safety, I would say that there is zilch in a front end collision although I have never been in one. I usually take back roads anyway.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:50 am

I’ve got a few different Type2s. I’m 6’1 250lbs. My wife and I fit in them just fine. I’ll comment more when I have time.

76 Westfalia camper
72 Campmobile
85 Weekender

I hang out with people that drive all styles of Type2s. All different lifestyles and backgrounds.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:27 pm

EmberiHippie wrote: I know that if I had a Bus, I wouldn't take it on the interstate.
Don't be afraid, just be careful.

Cross Bronx Expressway... i survived ;)

Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:59 pm

Glenn wrote: steve244 wrote: Yeah but don't you want the 911 of vans?

Quote: What we have here is the Porsche 911 of vans. The Vanagon goes down the road with a car-like assuredness that's never existed in vehicles of this type before. Once you get used to being seated a couple of stories above the pavement, you can slice through twisty roads with abandon. Its steering is amply quick, and even has plenty of road feel and a strong sense of center. Bumps, even in the middle of corners, don't have a prayer of deflecting the Vanagon off course.

giggle.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32437946/tested-1980-volkswagen-vanagon-l/
No this is.. the B32
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-porsche-b32-i...w-existed/

Quote: The Porsche B32 Is The Coolest 911-Engined Van You Never Knew Existed

But if you want Hippie Cool and fast, then...

yeah but do buses have a song?

Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:41 pm

Bought the '79 thirteen years ago as we did not have a vehicle large enough to accomodate 2 adults, 2 boys, old school snare and bass drum and drum corps uniforms. Boys were in fife and drum corps, and we needed to get to parades. I saw it as an opportunity to avoid buying a minivan, my wife was a sport, and the boys thought it was flat out cool.
We've taken it from CT to Yorktown VA, Topsail Island NC, Bennington VT, and now with no one in fife and drum it's main duty is get us to Eastham MA in the summer.
On I95 we are in the slow lane at 60, 65, and the drive sucks as I am hyper tuned in situational awareness. Taking backroads is the way to go. Still hyper aware, but at 50 it is easier.
The major issue is people see the bus and think nothing of pulling out in front, cause somehow it's assumed busses are slow.

Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:08 pm

"Cause somehow it's assumed busses are slow."

They are!

Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:29 pm

Bonesberg55 wrote: "Cause somehow it's assumed busses are slow."

They are!

They are, but the perception is often way wrong when some dumb ass sees you as 35 mph cause every one knows old VW's are slow while your real approach speed is more like 50.

Thus the situational awareness needed, despite the bright green and white color scheme that some have claimed was invisible "I didn't see you" paint

Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:27 pm

EmberiHippie wrote: Thanks for your replies. I know that if I had a Bus, I wouldn't take it on the interstate. It seems that, like a bicycle, the joy is in the journey. Frankly, there are times when I wish I could find joy in my journeys. Right now I drive a 2008 Toyota Sienna, and while it still gets me reliably where I want to go at almost 227,000 miles, I just don't think it'd be the same if I were to do it up like a hippie van. Somehow the flower children of the late '60s and early '70s were able to take a few-year-old VW Bus and make it look super cool. I don't see how a few-year-old anything could be a viable hippie-cool vehicle these days. (The closest any vehicle could come would be a Prius, or a real school bus.)

Did the (Type 2) Bus get away with being a death trap in its time because vehicles generally moved slower? The only knowledge I have of speed limits from the '60s is a line from a documentary movie where Neal Cassady said, "Welcome to New Jersey, speed 50!" Even before the maximum speed limit was set at 55 in 1974 or whenever, I imagine that there were few to no roads that had a speed limit of 70. A lot of cars couldn't comfortably do 70 in those days. (My dad had a 1982 Chevette that could never top 69. We always joked that it'd blow up if it reached 70.)

So I wouldn't expect to have to take a 70 mph head-on in a Bus.

I really wish there were a way for me to rent these vehicles for a day or two, so that I could see what it'd be like to own them. Any of y'all know anything about services, preferably in or around Northeast Ohio, that rent out such vehicles?

And what do y'all know of the difference in the "Bus" and "Vanagon" communities of people? I will confess to trying to find "my tribe", and it sure ain't easy. I'm as anti-establishment as they get, and part of me has a strong desire to flaunt that as often as I can get away with flaunting it.

If you build it to go 70, it will go 70.
I drive mine on long trips, often mostly interstate. 1600 sp with mild cam and IRS setup with trans from a '71 Super and it will sit at 70 all day long, maybe aside from steep grades.
As far as safety, I view it like a motorcycle. I'm out there, right in front and I am my best defense. I upgraded to discs and stay aware.