TheSamba.com :: View topic - Pennsylvania State Forest camping: no longer free

Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:12 am

Moderators, not sure if this is the correct location to place such an announcement, but I feel like there are plenty of us PA residents who this new policy affects.

Per DCNRs website, starting on 11/3/2022, State Forest campsites permits are no longer free. There is a $10 fee per night for PA residents, and a $15 per night for out of state (plus $6.50 transaction fee).

From their website:
Quote: Beginning 11/3/22 campsite reservations will be made through https://pennsylvaniastateparks.reserveamerica.com/. Please contact the forest district to request permits for any dates prior to 11/3/22 or with any questions.

For as long as I can remember, SF privative campsites were free, and that was the big draw to them. You didn't get any sort of amenities, short of a rudimentary fire ring and maybe a picnic table. I'm hoping with the new policy that they will at least be maintaining the sites a little better, such as ash clean up and grass mowing. I never had an issue with lack of maintenance in the past, because it was, well, free.

But like most things in our world right now, I guess everything has go up in price. Everyone has bills to pay.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:27 am

Thanks, good to know.

Camping just ain't what it used to be ........ (back in the 50's & 60's)

Dave

Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:11 am

all good things must come to an end. lame.

one night is $10 plus a $6.50 service fee to ReserveAmerica. this will be remembered by every hunter this season at the ballot box.

i am awaiting a callback from my contact at the state forestry office.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:15 am

dabaron wrote: plus a $6.50 service fee to ReserveAmerica.

I HATE this! On $10 it's a 65% tax. Why can Amazon sell and ship a physical object for less. Why can I book a restaurant reservation for a $15 meal for free?

dabaron wrote: this will be remembered by every hunter this season at the ballot box.

Please let us know what your contact says and who/which group/side is responsible for this.

Related - and need other solutions than these type of fees - managers of camping/wild spaces day they need more money to clean up after the messes/trash from both the higher used and messier left areas.
Many areas are being closed all together. :(

Also, there are many "reservations" not being used by folks that losing that money is not a big deal - this ends up being a taking of resources by the rich and less rich loose our even if they don't use that limited resource of a camp site. Also, the places you need to reserve long time in advance, often those reservations get forgotten.

Some states are devising processes to make unused reservations available to others and even penalizing folks that don't return reservations back to the available pile.

I was just in great sand dunes national Park last week. Camping "full" for weeks. Couldn't get a space is your tried.... The space across from us was empty both the days we were there.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:12 am

Press release coming Monday, fees are still not ironed out as of right now per my source.

Given the amount of demand from the pandemic, this was inevitable.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:18 am

dabaron wrote: Press release coming Monday, fees are still not ironed out as of right now per my source.

Given the amount of demand from the pandemic, this was inevitable.

Yeah, user tax or income tax- going to have to be one or the other just to maintain existing resources. There is also the extremely needed step of increasing outdoor recreational opportunities to simply match an expanding population.

TANSTAAFL applies.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:42 am

It’s inevitable. Where I live the numbers of homeless permanent campers has turned campsites into garbage dumps. It’s in the newspaper regularly. There is much vandalism along the trails and crude shelters people put up by hacking down young trees. Campsites are often overcrowded beyond their ecological support level, and it gets worse every year. The FS is pricing entry to keep out the undesirables.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:50 am

vanis13 wrote: dabaron wrote: plus a $6.50 service fee to ReserveAmerica.

I HATE this! On $10 it's a 65% tax.

A) Why is PA not using their own reservation service like AZ, CO, CA and others do? Percentage-wise, these states charge only a nominal fee (which I still hate, but that's another rant).

B) The National Parks, one by one, are going to a reservation-only system now, which really grinds my gears. Stopped in at Joshua Tree in August (the off-season!) to find a nearly empty campground at the south side and no way to pay, only a message saying to drive back down to I-10 and make a reservation if any sites are available (even the rangers cannot process camp sites... online only). None were available, allegedly,🙄 and I wasn't wasting all that gas to make four total trips... camped on the BLM land instead (major monsoon storm that night!). Death Valley has done it correctly: electronic kiosk at the campground & ranger station, so that drive-ups can easily and immediately pay for an available site without a ranger being on duty.

C) Reservation-only camping is getting on my last nerve. It's making those of us who enjoy spontaneous trips endure a hassle, and it's especially bad for folks like my dad who are not technologically-inclined.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:29 am

Slightly related, we camped 2 nights recently at NY state parks. First night staff was already gone. Next AM we stopped to pay on our way out. They took our money, but advised us NY is no longer accepting campers that have not reserved a site and paid. So the next night Reserve America, while polite, that operator could tell us nothing about the sites and it was just luck if you got a dry level decent site. Also the parks were not accepting current rabies tags as proof of rabies vaccination. Our vet was closed for Ina so we just went for it. $6.50 handling fee on top of the site. Both parks were basically empty. I wonder why? Seems you have to investigate each state you might be driving through. Never did that before. We make it up as we go. Sites in all the state parks we camped in were available. In other words saw none of the overcrowding or homeless we see in the news.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:24 pm

vanis13 wrote:
I HATE this! On $10 it's a 65% tax. Why can Amazon sell and ship a physical object for less. Why can I book a restaurant reservation for a $15 meal for free?
.

It’s not a tax. It the cost that a private business is charging.
I find it a crime that Reserve America charges this much, but apparently since so many states use it, perhaps it is cheaper than developing their own and/or bending to the non-stop call to privatize every government service.

I think it would be cool if a few states decided to pool finances and form their own system. Such as all the Northeast states forming Reserve New England(tm).

Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:55 pm

Last week I tried to buy scalped football tickets to a sold out game and Stubhub wanted 40% fees. So a $400 ticket was $560

Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:57 pm

mikemtnbike wrote:
Yeah, user tax or income tax- going to have to be one or the other

CT pulled this bullshit on us with a "passport to the parks" fee on your fucking registration 10 bux every time you renew, for every fucking car you own.

so, we pay 100 bux to use parks and beaches...we don't use. and they won't let seniors opt out.

I have the mind to park the triaxle 10 wide just to get my moneys worth and leave it there

at least you're not forced to pay for something you don't use

Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:43 pm

We just stayed at a WV state forest. Arrived dusk Sunday night. No pay drop box, sign saying reserve and pay on line. No internet service in the hollow! Thought oh well we'll pay tomorrow when we can find service! Less the 20 min later a ranger turns up on golf cart asking if we had reservations? Nope! She was able to process our card in the spot with a smile and thank you for stopping with us. Way to go WV :wink:

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:24 pm

vanagonjr wrote: vanis13 wrote:
I HATE this! On $10 it's a 65% tax. Why can Amazon sell and ship a physical object for less. Why can I book a restaurant reservation for a $15 meal for free?
.

It’s not a tax. It the cost that a private business is charging.

private business in a gov't sponsored monopoly.

And why is the gvt fee $6.50 when the private fee is only $3.50

"For campgrounds that need to use Reserve America for credit card processing, the company offers competitive rates, and online bookings are a flat $3.50 per transaction." https://woodallscm.com/reserve-america-turns-to-private-campgrounds/

...and why do we have to pay a fee at all. Give me a address and I'll send a check w.my reservation or I'll fill out the little envelope at the campground and put cash in it and put it the the metal pole/box....Cash, remember that thing that has no fee to use - sure no 1% back in "points" but also the business doesn't have to pay 3-5% in fees.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:27 pm

2005 $97 FED million contract

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReserveAmerica

"Facilitating nearly 50 million transactions between people and outdoor activities every year" 50 million * $6.50 = $325,000,000 = a third of a BILLION dollars each year!

https://www.reserveamerica.com/outdoors/about-us.h...solutions.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:41 pm

NY Empire pass finally went to a multiple car usable version for $80 annual a few years ago. Excellent. We routinely recover 2x in park entry fees around Long Island and upstate. Everyone in family has the app and pass on their phone.

Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:43 pm

Reservations for campsites are total bullshit.

I had to book a campsite for Jtree in November all the way back in DECEMBER!

Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:22 am

I'm gonna sell my van and get a boat... :roll:

Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:52 am

photogdave wrote: I'm gonna sell my van and get a boat... :roll:

Have you looked at the harbors and marinas lately?
Go look at the water frots in boating areas on a nice weekend........ bow to stern traffic jams.
Then add to that, you left coasters..... well..... your bodies of water are vanishing!

The burden of use is beginning to exceed what our recreation areas can bear.
I've no qualms about users paying user fees, after all they are the ones benefitting from their use.

Like I said ....... the 50's and 60's are all gone folks.
The experience one has in a Local, County, State or Federal Park/Forest/Preserve is way different now than it was back then.
We used to be immersed in Nature, now we visit a controlled and regulated nature experience.

Decades ago I stopped visiting the grander more popular forests.
The Yellowstones, the Glaciers, the Yosemites of the system and favored instead spending time in the less grand but also greatly less visited parks and public lands.
Why?
Been there, seen them .......
The crowds just ruin the experience.
If I want to sit in bumper to bumper traffic or stand in crowds of people, .i'll go visit the Cities.

Dave

Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:56 am

photogdave wrote: I'm gonna sell my van and get a boat... :roll:

Duncan can turn your Vanagon into a boat!