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Tue May 31, 2022 8:24 pm

if the Sachs are true HD- oil filled, you might want to see if someone will let you drive a Koni bus to compare them. I used to use HD Monroe in my 1971 bus and when the Koni are set up right my 1977 handles about like the 1971 did, maybe a touch better. I had Nakata in the 1977 first and they handled well but could have used just a touch more dampening. I think Boge was the original shocks on these buses. I know that the Nakata felt a lot like my 1971 did before the Monroe HD. They are no longer made nor are the Gabriel HD which were similar.

Tue May 31, 2022 8:39 pm

Bar none. Correct tires make the biggest improvement

Tue May 31, 2022 9:42 pm

fwiw.... KYB (Kayaba) shocks and forks are standard equipment on millions of motorcycles

Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:21 pm

So were lucas electrics...

(ducks and runs....)

Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:35 am

Jalabert wrote: So were lucas electrics...

(ducks and runs....)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:42 pm

gotta agree.... suspension and electrical are indeed,,,, ducks and nuns

what kind of shock absorbers did Lucas make? maybe capacitors???

and BTW, I posted about KYB because the OP had never heard of them. they have been around a long time & make OEM suspension parts for every major motorcycle brand in Japan

Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:46 pm

SGKent wrote: Cap10323 wrote: KYB suspension parts are a fantastic value for money. I've been using their Excell-G series shocks and struts on basically everything for years. There's a set on my Bus, and also my Toyota and Subaru.

Do they provide the same ride/handling quality as the Billsteins or Konis? Hell no. But are they cost like $25-40 each, and last for 60K+ miles depending on your road conditions.

I have zero complaints with the ride quality of my Bus with the Excell-G's on the front.

glad you enjoy them. The ones I owned destroyed the handling of every car I put them on. They were supposed to be so good, and everyone said get them. Then the day I gave up on them and took them off was one of the best days of my life. But to each his own.

What was so bad about the shocks? too soft / too hard or ?? On what car did you use them on? What brand did you use afterwards? Just asking, because I never had any issues on front wheel drive cars with KYBs. Never used them on a Bus

Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 pm

Tvättbjörn wrote: SGKent wrote: Cap10323 wrote: KYB suspension parts are a fantastic value for money. I've been using their Excell-G series shocks and struts on basically everything for years. There's a set on my Bus, and also my Toyota and Subaru.

Do they provide the same ride/handling quality as the Billsteins or Konis? Hell no. But are they cost like $25-40 each, and last for 60K+ miles depending on your road conditions.

I have zero complaints with the ride quality of my Bus with the Excell-G's on the front.

glad you enjoy them. The ones I owned destroyed the handling of every car I put them on. They were supposed to be so good, and everyone said get them. Then the day I gave up on them and took them off was one of the best days of my life. But to each his own.

What was so bad about the shocks? too soft / too hard or ?? On what car did you use them on? What brand did you use afterwards? Just asking, because I never had any issues on front wheel drive cars with KYBs. Never used them on a Bus

Here you go, Sgkent goes off about them in this thread. Personally I think they are fine. My truck, Bus and Beetle all have them and I think they ride excellent. But I’m not racing or doing a Dukes jump. 🤷‍♂️

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767250&highlight=kyb

Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:55 pm

dogmeat wrote: gotta agree.... suspension and electrical are indeed,,,, ducks and nuns

what kind of shock absorbers did Lucas make? maybe capacitors???

and BTW, I posted about KYB because the OP had never heard of them. they have been around a long time & make OEM suspension parts for every major motorcycle brand in Japan

I was being a smart ass for cheap laughs, no offence or snarkiness intended...

On the OEM thing though - genuinely, I don't take something being OEM as that meaningful. Quite apart from growing up in Britain in the 70's, when every other car wheezed into life or refused to start in the damp thanks to the work of the Prince of Darkness, I raced motorbikes for a while. Kind of interesting, Ducati never won squat for ages - reason being, there's used to be laws in Italy regarding the use of italian components on italian vehicles. It wasn't until Ducati were unshackled from that and they could bin the awful Marzocchi suspension that they were half-way competitive. And as for Magnetti Morelli electrics - well, at least they kept Lucas company at the bottom of the heap...

Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:26 am

Quote: Magnetti Morelli electrics
Fiat and Ferrari used the distributors and they lasted really well without issues. Also were in Lancia at the time which were using Fiat produced motors.

Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:09 pm

SGKent wrote: Quote: Magnetti Morelli electrics
Fiat and Ferrari used the distributors and they lasted really well without issues. Also were in Lancia at the time which were using Fiat produced motors. Land Rover used their Alternator in the Range Rover Classics, early 90s, if I remember right.
Big improvement over the constantly failing Lucas Altn that was previously in the engine compartment.
But, different mounting system and belt drive as well for the Magnetti’s as well . They used a thin multi-rib belt versus the V-Belt that had run the earlier Lucas.

Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:08 pm

Quote: I was being a smart ass for cheap laughs, no offence or snarkiness intended...

me too....

Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:38 am

I ran a pair of KYB gas adjust in the front years ago. I have to agree with SGKent, they were so stiff, every bump was bouncing me out of the seat — terrible what they do to the ride. There's really no need for that in a bus. I went to oil filled Boge and it was like night and day the difference.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:56 am

wildDogPizza wrote: I ran a pair of KYB gas adjust in the front years ago. I have to agree with SGKent, they were so stiff, every bump was bouncing me out of the seat — terrible what they do to the ride. There's really no need for that in a bus. I went to oil filled Boge and it was like night and day the difference.
yep. describes it perfectly.

Tires are there to grip the road. Springs are there to allow the tires to follow the terrain. Shocks are there solely to get the springs back to neutral for the next change in terrain, and they carry the sprung weight. Tires traction ability is proportional to the weight on it up to the design load. Any thing that loads and unloads the tires is also changing traction. Since acceleration, compression braking, and friction braking use part of that available traction, anything that messes with it also affects the ability to corner, accelerate and brake. VW did an excellent job of choosing spring rates for the best performance. When the bus was built, IRS suspensions were not on all that many cars. Most notably, Porsche and Corvettes used them, as well as VW's and VW Buses. VW buses already have optimal spring rates, and do not need shocks to artificially increase those rates, as well as no car needs the effect of more unsprung weight which is what stiff shocks increase. One will notice many road racing cars even reduce it further by moving the brakes to the axle shaft attached to the transmission - making it sprung weight. It is also one of the reasons racing cars use lightweight tires and rims. Ever picked up a real magnesium racing rim? Almost feels like lifting a feather. We would all use them but they are too brittle and fragile for street driving.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:22 pm

This is a 1976 Yamaha Moto-Bike C-model. The front suspension fork uprights are manufactured by KYB. The same fork used on the Yamaha 50cc bikes of the day were used for these bicycles. 8)

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:34 pm

as far as the ongoing debate about KYB Gas a just, they are a liability when going over speedbumps in the grocery store parking lot, 2 1/2mph is how I roll over those, what they do out on the road is cancel that 'second settling' of the front torsion leaves when taking corners, usually fast sweepers above 30 mph, in those cases with standard shocks, the bus settles 'twice', first the body shift, then the front torsion leaves wind up & settle 'again', it's usually mistaken for the bus coming unstuck & on the verge of rolling by a novice passenger, followed by lunging for the handle above the glovebox for fear of rolling. >eyeroll<

The KYB Gas a justs take that away, or at least make the body roll & torsion windup meld together in one seamless loading of the chassis. So that would be where the value lies with them, roadholding in corners. I'm tired of the bus settling into every aggressive corner.... twice. Too soft for my tastes. To each their own.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:07 pm

actually no body roll means no warning when it reaches the tip over point. It isn't a sports car with a low center of gravity, and buses do roll from being top heavy with all the steel and glass up high. You won't get any warning before you roll it.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:17 pm

timvw7476 wrote: Too soft for my tastes. To each their own.
Agree completely. I want my busses (and former bugs) to feel more like a GTI than an Oldsmobile, even now that Im olds.

And I just wanted to cause Kent to give us one more rant.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:57 pm

nemobuscaptain wrote: timvw7476 wrote: Too soft for my tastes. To each their own.
Agree completely. I want my busses (and former bugs) to feel more like a GTI than an Oldsmobile, even now that Im olds.

And I just wanted to cause Kent to give us one more rant.

actually they were shared knowledge for those who want to learn. But those who "know it all" might think they were a rant cause they can't stand to have anyone not agree with them. We used to see a lot of them at the track. I don't know how well it worked for them though, cause they were never getting the checkered flag. That is the funny thing about learning - the knowledge is out there for those who want to learn. Like I tell our friends based on all those years in finance - wait until the interest rate on all those credit cards, and adjustable rate mortgages get to 6% - 8% to combat inflation. The Sauds refused today to sell us more oil, and raised their prices to us by triple. They know what the game is with all the money printing. when it happens, it is going to make 2008 - 2012 look like a picnic. Gasoline hit almost $10 today in parts of California and it is headed to the whole USA. Lee Iaccoca said that his parents were filthy rich before the depression, owning hundreds of rentals - but they weren't smart enough to have just one of those homes paid for so they lost every last one. Good thing about a VW bus whether you have hard or soft shocks - when you sleep in it, it feels just the same. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:04 am

dogmeat wrote: fwiw.... KYB (Kayaba) shocks and forks are standard equipment on millions of motorcycles

KYB is also the OEM for many Japanese auto makers. Subarus for example, come with KYB struts from the factory. Just with Subaru branding.