TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1600-1641 Weber 40's or 44's ??

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:24 pm

Considering going with a set of Weber IDF 40's or 44's.
which would be best suited for a 1600 DP Type 1 ?
Don't know what my deck height is but got a solid 150 across the board for compression.
Have 1-1/4" extractor exhaust.
"034" dizzy but i have a 009 to use as well.
Stock heads.
Don't plan on babying the car but don't plan on racing or beating the snot out of it either.
Might go to 1641, a mild cam, and slightly heavier valve springs but nothing crazy.
What would the jetting be?
Thanks in advance.

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:43 pm

40 IDF. 44's are to big, unless you have plans for a larger engine in the future.

36 DRLA'S would be a great choice to.

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:44 pm

empi hpmx 40
dellorto 36drla or 40 drla

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:54 pm

modok wrote: empi hpmx 40
dellorto 36drla or 40 drla

I am about EMPI'd out. Tired of the poor quality they have been giving me on some things. Unless thier carbs are better than a genuine Weber?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:58 pm

Bug53 wrote: modok wrote: empi hpmx 40
dellorto 36drla or 40 drla

I am about EMPI'd out. Tired of the poor quality they have been giving me on some things. Unless thier carbs are better than a genuine Weber?

I have no right to comment on here about carb choice. But the latest HPMX carbs from EMPI seem legit. I know a few builders that use them often without complaints. Curious about exhaust set up you have on the 1600. Probably more questions coming your way like CR, Cam, deck height, and etc. what’s the goal for your driving style?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:32 pm

new 40 IDFs would be ok, they would be my 6th choice for your 70-90 hp engine.

in decending order
40 drla
40 idf-78/79
36 drla
40 hpmx
36idfs
40 idf-70

Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:48 pm

Definitely a set of rebuilt 36 Dells or IDF´s, especially if you plan on keeping the 009 style distributor.
A set of Chinese 40 IDF will be cheaper, but the carb is actually too big for a 1600 because the body itself is as a 44, which means that the throat is on the large side for engines that only pull 15-20 hp per cylinder. That again results in more trouble to get the carbs properly jetted, and if you use a fourtuned header the mid rpm afr dip is going to be very present, even with a mild cam. On top of that the stack size and spape becomes very important.
If you wanted a 40 mm the Spanish 40 IDF/70 was the right choice, but I prefer Italian 36´es over those.

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:57 am

To the OP. My comment to you regarding EMPI. Is those HPMX Chinese carbs seem of decent quality (Unlike most EMPI products) not necessarily if they are correct for your combo.

Great information from Alstrup and Modok.

This is for my education. I always thought Italian Dells, 36 DRLAs were the equivalent to Spanish Weber 40idfs. Or very similar :-k

Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:23 am

Xevin wrote: To the OP. My comment to you regarding EMPI. Is those HPMX Chinese carbs seem of decent quality (Unlike most EMPI products) not necessarily if they are correct for your combo.

Great information from Alstrup and Modok.

This is for my education. I always thought Italian Dells, 36 DRLAs were the equivalent to Spanish Weber 40idfs. Or very similar :-k
Xevin. The body of the 40 IDF70 is the same as the Italian 36 IDF. There are some smaller differences such as (obviusly) the butterfly size and also the progression holes.

Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:26 am

Maybe it put it the common weber 40 IDF down the list because I don't think the price is worth it. It is a good carburetor, but not the best.
hard to get excited about spending big bucks on a BRAND new set when you know there are better carbs for less $

Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:42 am

Bug53 wrote: Considering going with a set of Weber IDF 40's or 44's.
which would be best suited for a 1600 DP Type 1 ?
Don't know what my deck height is but got a solid 150 across the board for compression.
Have 1-1/4" extractor exhaust.
"034" dizzy but i have a 009 to use as well.
Stock heads.
Don't plan on babying the car but don't plan on racing or beating the snot out of it either.
Might go to 1641, a mild cam, and slightly heavier valve springs but nothing crazy.
What would the jetting be?
Thanks in advance.
If you want Dellorto 36's DRLA, This vendor can get you, a nice set up.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1792064

Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:15 am

Correct.
AND, if you decide on 36 IDF´s here is a carb specific set up from CSP
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/brand-shops/csp-produc...1634400750
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/velocity-stacks-csp-129-616-036ck-30946a.html?cache=1634400880

Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:55 pm

Alstrup wrote: Definitely a set of rebuilt 36 Dells or IDF´s, especially if you plan on keeping the 009 style distributor.
A set of Chinese 40 IDF will be cheaper, but the carb is actually too big for a 1600 because the body itself is as a 44, which means that the throat is on the large side for engines that only pull 15-20 hp per cylinder. That again results in more trouble to get the carbs properly jetted, and if you use a fourtuned header the mid rpm afr dip is going to be very present, even with a mild cam. On top of that the stack size and spape becomes very important.
If you wanted a 40 mm the Spanish 40 IDF/70 was the right choice, but I prefer Italian 36´es over those.

When you refer to Chinese IDF's do you mean the EMPI models?

Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:44 pm

There are a few chinese ones. Some threads are around maybe someone will link to them.

There is 2 versions of chinese IDF. One is crappy, one is ussually ok. EmpI makes the HPMX. Some of them work. No one is exactly proud to own one... at least I think.

Get a used Italian carb before people buy them all up and they go up in price... :lol:

Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:23 am

Yes. The trick is to find the vendors that sells 1st quality. Several of the Ebay/Amazon vendors sell on lowest price. - They also do not get the best carbs from the factories. Now, I am NOT recommending one brand over the other, only ascertaining that the Fajs brand has a good general quality when we are talking horizontal carbs (DCOE) When we talk downdraft like IDF´s they are not quite so consistently good.
There is another good manufacturer out there. You can find them by looking at their IDA carbs. They have a slight ridge in the carb top to help sealing against the carb body. Their IDF´s are quite decent too.
I am working with a third manufacturer, that has also proved decent consistency, about improving the IDF´s further, so they get closer to what a Dellorto can/could do, but it includes changing tools, and that is a slow process in China.

But going back to the 36 IDF or Dells. They are generally very good for smaller engines up to about 1835, 1914 at the most. (More displacement than that and the ramming effect diminnishes as you hit the rpm choke point too soon) By learning to make better heads, use more modern camshafts and modifying the carbs a little we nowadays pull 115-125 hp with 36 dells or IDF´s with cams that are MILDER than the industry standard W110, and with an incredible throttle reponse.
For instance, this is a 1776 buggy engine with modified 36 IDF´s. The dip in the powercurvce in the 3000 rpm area is due to the header/muffler (a Manx buggy muffler, which is terrible on that account) but it still pulls 118 hp through a set of ported super stock heads and only 238 degrees cam duration @ 0,050" 276 degrees advertised.
The exhaust was later swopped to a much better unit and the power dip is only half and barely noticeable when you drive, and the torque has improved. It is a really nice engine now.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:02 pm

That would be neat if you could help them improve the design.
I don't like the idle circuit in the normal 40idf
it should be like the 36 IDF or like the 44idf instead.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:08 pm

I think I will look further into 36DRLA's.
Do these carbs fit into an engine compartment with the standard Doghouse shroud?
I have Kadrons in there now. Drivers side is close to Tarboard due to it being out about 3/4" because of wiring behind it.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:42 pm

Bug53 wrote: I think I will look further into 36DRLA's.
Do these carbs fit into an engine compartment with the standard Doghouse shroud?
I have Kadrons in there now. Drivers side is close to Tarboard due to it being out about 3/4" because of wiring behind it.
More photos available in the gallery.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572107

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:54 pm

APPLEGREENVW wrote: Bug53 wrote: I think I will look further into 36DRLA's.
Do these carbs fit into an engine compartment with the standard Doghouse shroud?
I have Kadrons in there now. Drivers side is close to Tarboard due to it being out about 3/4" because of wiring behind it.
More photos available in the gallery.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572107

That's a 36HP type shroud.
I asked about the standard shroud.
Nice install though.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:12 pm

You should be able to run it with any shroud I have them "Dell 36's" in the Bus with the Stock Dog House Shroud. But in a Bug. It will be very tight. The Dells have the advantage of the Idle Jets being on top over the IDF with them on the outside. Probably will be a bit of a contortionist trick to adjust the idle mix on Dells or IDF's in a beetle. People cut access panels in the inner fenders to get to them and raise the engine Deck Lid to clear the air cleaners etc...
The nice thing about the 36 Style Doghouse Shroud's is the room they provide between the carbs and the fan shrouds.
I think the later beetles have a little more room for these carburetors. I chose to Mount Zenith NDIX-32's in my 1960 beetle and I reversed them for 31.5" inches width. If you're not running heaters a 36 horse Dog House Shroud is the way to go as it makes more room on the inside and is nice looking.
Dual Zenith NDIX-32X25 Configurations.