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Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:20 am

Hi. I went to start a new build 2007 today.
Bitterly cold weather. Motor has a new high torque starter. Any way, starter struggled to turn the motor. I had to put some charge into it for half hour.
Battery says 390 cca. It's only a little battery.
Gunna get a better bat, 390 ain't good is it

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:02 pm

Stock was ~390cca
I now have a 550cca/60Ah battery on my 2276 and 25mm2/4AWG leads :D
Nothing is stopping it now, although it has chewed the flywheel a bit!

What starter did you go for?

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:12 pm

Nice 1 luke. My suspicion was right. Battery's fxxxxd

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:16 pm

The cold doesn't help.

You have a relay in to bypass the ignition switch? That helps get a lot more juice up to the starter.

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:48 pm

Remember the stock starter and battery were cranking a 1600cc engine with 7.3/1 CR and 20 or 30 wt oil not some 2.3 liter monster with 11/1 CR and 50 wt oil.

Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:21 pm

No hard start relay, but that's something I might also have to add.
Ta.

Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:17 pm

I have always used the old batteries from my V8 vehicles.
Once it seems to crank the V8 a little slowly, I will switch it over the the VW.
It still cranks the little guy like crazy.

Most are 750 CCA batteries.
I also have 4 gauge welding wire battery cables on the bug.
The little 1500cc engine usually only takes 1 revolution to fire right up.
I drive it all year long too.

Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:34 am

I usaed a 980 CCA battery, but where I live the temps get quite extreme. Helpful at any time, but it sure made a difference in winter!

Chris

Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:32 pm

Hitorque starters only use about 50amps.
or less.

I can start motors with my hitorque starter with 3 scooter batteries in parallel.

10ga wire, blade connections. Cranks no problem.

Your battery must really be weak..

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:31 pm

I just went on a search for the current draw of a VW starter and found nothing. The reason is that Ohio Tom's 50 amp claim sounded suspiciously low to me. The best I could find is a general statement that starters draw 20 to 30 amps without a load so that is just the power needed to turn themselves. That is 240 to 360 watts or 1/3 to 1/2 HP. Tom's starter is drawing 600 watts? The same as a couple 300 watt light bulbs? Less than 1 HP? Hmmm...

The reason I believe there is so little info out there on this is because there are so many variables. The starter is only going to draw as much power as is needed to turn over a given engine. That is going to depend on temperature of all components especially the oil, engine displacement, number of cylinders, compression ratio, how far open the throttle is, individual cylinder displacement and the temperature and condition of the battery.

Yes in the summer I have started a gas Jetta engine on a little computer UPS back up battery less than 1/2 the size of the stock one. In fact we drove it most of the summer on that thing. Come cooler weather it was nowhere near adequate! Battery efficiency goes way down and current requirement goes way up!

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:39 pm

900cca won't deliver any more power than a 300cca if the starter can't pull it. It'll sustain more repeated efforts though.

Biggest consumer of current on startup imo can be bad earths and the long run to the ignition switch and back.

New and shiny earth straps and clean terminals both ends along with a hard start switch speeds the engine up loads.

Stock starter is around 500W
Auto starter is around 600W
Good aftermarket are 1000w plus. (My WOSP starter is 1400W) So their current draw is significantly higher.

Edit,
Tom as usual is about bang on.

500/12 = ~42A

1400/12 = ~117A

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:24 pm

Rrr. The wosp. I fitted 1 of these with the rebuilt 2007
390 battery and 1400w starter is a poor combo then.
Bought a new 680 battery for it today and ordered a new longer earth cable.
Hard start next.

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:32 pm

GARRICK.CLARK wrote: Rrr. The wosp. I fitted 1 of these with the rebuilt 2007
390 battery and 1400w starter is a poor combo then.
Bought a new 680 battery for it today and ordered a new longer earth cable.
Hard start next.

They do a 1.0, 1.4 and 2.0kW I think.
Gonna make a 390CCA work hard :D

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:52 pm

Garrick you do not need a Relay just a push button and at least a 10 gauge or thicker wire.

You connect the wire to the battery then to the one terminal on the push button then to the solenoid plus terminal.

This is from a previous post it maybe helpful.

The Starter Pushbutton is not shown and is not connected to the two relays.

The Toggle Fuel shut off is shown.
Also as we get into wiring and as one of guys mentioned thin wires. On a stock bug is it is fine to have a thin wire go from the battery all the way to the front of the bug into the key switch and fuse block, then back to the rear of the car to lights, ignition etc..

With extra accessories things need a bit more current then that thin gauge wire can handle. I have an Electric Fuel pump with a cut off ( that I use anytime I shut my engine, to keep the duel carbs from gunking up. Also as a theft protection). All that thin wire does when I turn my ignition on is activate two 50 amp relay that are in parallel, one dies the other takes over. It runs my Jacobs Ignition system, fuel pump, LED brake bar and other crazy creations, like turning it into Halloween Float. Oh, I don’t use my key switch to start the car I have a hidden button that goes directly from the battery to the starter solenoid. Turn the key and reach behind the drivers seat and hit the switch. The push button is attached to the crossmember that holds the rear seat. – Also works for theft protection .

I am into switches !!!!!!! Ha !!!

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:32 am

I like what you've done Nextgen, just saying, but your hidden starter button isn't hidden anymore, we all no where it is.

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:43 am

Cold Cranking Amps... The rating refers to the number of amps a 12-volt battery can deliver at 0°F for 30 seconds while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts.

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:51 am

Like I said the button and the kill switch I did not install to prevent theft.

The Orange Unbreakable AutoLok was !!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=741115&highlight=autolock

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:59 am

Yeah that orange lock will do it. There's no room down there to even try n get it off.