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Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:57 pm

Not sure if this fits in this section but since brakes COULD be considered performance, we we go.. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but if I remember correctly, I was told that Type 3 calipers are slightly bigger than stock Karmann Ghia calipers yet the Type 3 calipers are a direct drop-in. After many years of "life happening," I am finally putting my 71 back on the road. Anyone with knowledge on this please share! Thanks in advance!

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:30 am

Yes, there is a 42 mm piston instead of 40 mm. There's early and late Type 3 calipers, too, IIRC, something about the caliper mounting is different. Or thicknesses. Or both? :lol:

Where can you find original Type 3 calipers? Many type 3s have replaced the calipers with bug ones.

Type 3 late rear drum setup is a big step up from bug, too.

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:11 pm

Those calipers can be bought on Amazon. But as I look around, for not a whole lot of money I can convert the rear brakes to disc so I think I am going to go that route instead of just bigger calipers and pads up front. Thanks for the input.

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:44 pm

There are early and late type 3 calipers as mentioned. The late type 3 have 42mm pistons.

However...to add to your list.....the late type 3 calipers with 42mm pistons are actually ALSO the same caliper as the EARLY type 4 and 914 caliper. The later type 4 and 914 caliper is still the same 42mm piston, same bolt pattern, different spindle, thicker rotor and pad.

I don't know if you can fit those or not...but its a better caliper and rotor than late type 3. Ray

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:17 am

Afaik..

Bug and ghia use the same calipers....

Same calipers were used by 4stud type 3 up to 72?! Ish...

After that, the type 3 switched to a caliper used by it's younger brother the type 4... as has been mentioned above, this new caliper has bigger pistons... there are other differences, but most importantly the mounting bolt spacing is different...

Thusly, they will NOT interchange...

Beetle, ghia, early 4 stud type 3... approx. 52mm?! Bolt spacing. Effectively all the same internally.

Later type 3, type 4... approx 75mm bolt spacing...

Measure the bolt spacing on your car to be sure what you have... if it's 52mm... then..

For bolt on type upgrades..

In Europe, talbot horizon or similar calipers could be used for an upgrade.. difficult to find now... kerscher offer a vented type kit for bug and ghia that's a bolt on, you'd have to ask some of the more knowledgeable european guys on here.. e.g. Alstrup, how well they work...
Also tarox did a 4?... 6? Piston caliper kit at one point as well, but that is hard to find...

I'm sure other people will come in with some other options...

Good luck with the project!:)

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:23 am

dunk wrote: Afaik..

Bug and ghia use the same calipers....

Same calipers were used by 4stud type 3 up to 72?! Ish...

Beetle, ghia, early 4 stud type 3... approx. 52mm?! Bolt spacing. Effectively all the same internally.

nope, as mentioned 66-72 type 3 calipers have bigger pistons than ghia and beetle ones

Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:34 am

Slow 1200 wrote:

nope, as mentioned 66-72 type 3 calipers have bigger pistons than ghia and beetle ones

Fair enough!...

You learn something every day...

What' are the actual differences?! In diameter? Pad size the same? Single or twin pin caliper?!

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:15 am

as far as I remember it's piston size, 40mm for type 1 and 42mm for type 3s

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:16 am

The Beetle came with front disc brakes from the factory? I have not seen one, what year did this happen?

Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:29 am

oprn wrote: The Beetle came with front disc brakes from the factory? I have not seen one, what year did this happen?

I think... with my very basic vw knowledge :D

In 1967... the bug was available in yet another wonderful new combination...

1500cc, 12v, upright headlights, ball joints, 4stud wheels..... and disc brakes!

We are talking European here though..

I'm sure others can narrow this down even further!..

Also..

having investigated further on the the web...

Respectfully, slow 1200 - for euro models.... i feel im right... as has been mentioned by others at the top of the thread, the 40/42mm difference is for different calipers... there is a change over in Europe late 71?! Early 72?!maybe.... I have owned a type three with the larger calipers... they do NOT interchange...
However.. I can see confusion arising if you're not expecting bugs to have had discs from 67!....

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:56 pm

Certain countries including Germany required disc brakes for cars over a certain displacement (or HP, or top speed, not sure which), and the VW 1500 Beetle fit the bill.

Same parts as the '66 Ghia, I believe.

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:57 pm

dunk wrote: Afaik..

Bug and ghia use the same calipers....

Same calipers were used by 4stud type 3 up to 72?! Ish...

Just to correct you. Early Type 3 with 4 bolt wheels had 42mm and not 40mm like the Ghia and Bettle

After that, the type 3 switched to a caliper used by it's younger brother the type 4... as has been mentioned above, this new caliper has bigger pistons... there are other differences, but most importantly the mounting bolt spacing is different...

Thusly, they will NOT interchange...

Beetle, ghia, early 4 stud type 3... approx. 52mm?! Bolt spacing. Effectively all the same internally.

Later type 3, type 4... approx 75mm bolt spacing...

Measure the bolt spacing on your car to be sure what you have... if it's 52mm... then..

For bolt on type upgrades..

In Europe, talbot horizon or similar calipers could be used for an upgrade.. difficult to find now... kerscher offer a vented type kit for bug and ghia that's a bolt on, you'd have to ask some of the more knowledgeable european guys on here.. e.g. Alstrup, how well they work...
Also tarox did a 4?... 6? Piston caliper kit at one point as well, but that is hard to find...

I'm sure other people will come in with some other options...

Good luck with the project!:)

Just to correct you. Early Type 3 with 4 bolt wheels had 42mm piston also and not 40mm piston like the Ghia and Beetle. At the first look the caliper looks the same, but there is a difference. As far as I know there are no new Type 3 caliper being made. All new caliper I have seen have a 40mm piston in it.

If somebody makes new early caliper with 42mm piston, please let me know.

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:03 pm

KTPhil wrote: Certain countries including Germany required disc brakes for cars over a certain displacement (or HP, or top speed, not sure which), and the VW 1500 Beetle fit the bill.

Same parts as the '66 Ghia, I believe.

Back in the 90;s every US Model VW i have seen had always smaller front brakes compared to the German version even with the big engines. The speed limit must be the reason. What is the point to install larger brakes if walking speed is the speed limit :lol: