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Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:25 am

Any purists out there who actually like the original horse hair? I have new upholstery for my 71 and have new foam ready to install, but upon taking the old upholstery off, the original horse hair looks perfect. Should I just keep it?

Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:58 am

My 0.02:

-That padding is already very old and worn out.
-You have already paid for new padding (foam)
-I would not want to have to yank the seats out in a few years to then replace the hair pad if it becomes uncomfortable
-Seating comfort is paramount priority, IMO. This is why I chose to go with a ProCar replacement seat kit.
-The foam is likely going to restore the comfort and support of your seats which you perhaps aren't even aware is gone.
-Re-covering the seats isn't exactly a fun job. Can be very finicky to get the covers on straight and wrinkle free. Not something I'd want to do twice.

I'd install the foam pads and never look back.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:00 am

I've often wondered if it would make sense to spray the bottom of the seat stuffing with rubber cement or something before putting it back in, in order to keep the fiber dust from raining down under the seats over time.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:07 am

I like putting the old cover on the springs, (cut piping off) then the horse hair on top, then if needed fill some areas with foam, then the new cover. Keeps some VW smell, fills up seat, controls the hairy mess.

-Frank

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:46 am

The seat “horse hair” pads (think that they’re actually made from coir — i.e. coconut husk fiber) are one of those things that give old VW bugs their distinctive interior scent. If you rode in VW’s as a kid, you’ll remember it instantly when you get in one nowadays... :-). So if you’re wanting “that smell”, you could consider reusing the ones you’ve already got — they look to be in pretty good shape from your pictures.

That said, those pads do tend to deteriorate and get brittle with age, causing the (also distinctive / common) layer of detritus under the seats. One way around that is to cover the seat springs with a layer of burlap or light canvas, prior to installing the “horse hair” pads — helps eliminate most of the mess, if and as those seat pads slowly break down over time.

Foam pads probably the better bet, though, if you don’t care for or about the smell, dust, etc.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:46 am

Have you seen the photos here on the Samba, where owners install new seat covers and there are sags and wrinkles? This occurs for many reasons, but mostly because the old cushions and/or springs are not adequate. Even new horsehair pads from Wolfsburg West can cause problems if the springs are sagging.

Another issue: When I first installed my TMI seat covers, I used new latex-impregnated horse hair pads from WW. The entire back seat looked fantastic. The front seat backs looked great, too. But the front seat bottoms didn’t work out well. There was an inch space between the pads and the cover, right where you plant your butt when sitting. I called TMI and they told me that if had used their foam pads, the covers would fit without this space. I ended up adding foam to fill the space, and all turned out nicely.

In my case, I had no wrinkles, however. Just too much space where the pad didn’t fill in. But many owners do have issues. It’s similar to a guy with a size 10 hat, wearing a size 13.

I wanted that stock-type look to my seats, so I went with new horsehair. But if I had it to do over, I’d have used the new TMI foam pads. The extra work and added padding involved could have been avoided.

I at least used new horsehair pads. Using the old ones that have been squished for forty years, opens up a much worse scenario, in my opinion.

I’ve seen a number of reupholstered seats using foam and they look very good. And I don’t miss the VW smell that I lost when I redid my seats. My first car was a VW that I bought new. It didn’t smell like an old sock, and I was perfectly happy with it—until I totaled the car a year later, that was.

Tim

Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:36 pm

Agree on replacing the horse hair, beetle perfume or not. Foam is better.

One problem is that the 'hair' breaks off and lands on you floor all the time. To prevent that I used a soft fabric (a cheap fleece carpet, actually) between the horse hair and the springs. Also between the horse hair and the seat cover. More comfort.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:50 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote: ...This occurs for many reasons, but mostly because the old cushions and/or springs are not adequate. Even new horsehair pads from Wolfsburg West can cause problems if the springs are sagging...

On an old standard Beetle I had, the springs had seen better days. To compensate, I took an old foam mattress and cut it into 2 x 2 inch cubes, then stuffed them up in the inside of the springs. The more foam cubes, the more tension in the seat.

Worked fine, more comfortable. After all, in new cars the seats are pretty hard and does not have you bouncing up and down.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:27 pm

for me i would keep the original padding, and add new foam on top of it to compensate for any compression of the old material. your original padding looks serviceable still. I am still using 59 year old seat padding in my 61 Bug with about an inch of foam added over it, under the cover.

Bug On! With Comfy Butts!

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote: Another issue: When I first installed my TMI seat covers, I used new latex-impregnated horse hair pads from WW. The entire back seat looked fantastic. The front seat backs looked great, too. But the front seat bottoms didn’t work out well. There was an inch space between the pads and the cover, right where you plant your butt when sitting. I called TMI and they told me that if had used their foam pads, the covers would fit without this space. I ended up adding foam to fill the space, and all turned out nicely
Tim, when I first got my car, it turned out the back seat had new covers that had merely been slipped over the original seat covers.

While refreshing some of the interior not long after, I removed the old original rear seat covers, replaced the pads (w/ the WW “horse hair” replica pads, like you mentioned), and then went to install the new seat covers. It was then I noticed that the “skirt” around the new bottom seat cover was about 3/4” to 1” longer than on the factory original. That new seat cover would still stretch tight when installed over the springs and pad, but the overall seat lower cushion assembly ended up sitting about an inch higher than original. And thus was much harder (almost impossible) to get back into the car and tucked under the rear seat back.

I ended up taking it all apart again, and trimming + resewing the lower edge pocket on the skirt so that it was the same length as the original factory cover. When reassembled the second time, it fit much better!

So am wondering if maybe the new front seat bottom covers currently available from TMI (or others) might have the same issue? I.e. that the skirt around the bottoms are a little longer than the factory originals, and thus won’t pull down as tight over the pads and springs? Just an idea — would be interesting if somebody has both new and factory original front seat bottom covers, to measure and compare the skirt lengths...

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:51 pm

entered in error 😐

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:54 pm

Boble wrote: After all, in new cars the seats are pretty hard and does not have you bouncing up and down.
Ha! I’m convinced that the seats in my car are just as much a part of the active suspension system as the springs in the torsion arms, etc. Going down any really bumpy or rough road, the seat springs feel like they’re doing almost half of the overall work (!!). Riding in an old Beetle is nothing like a modern car in those conditions, that’s for sure. :-)

Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:05 pm

Paint the underneath of the horse-hair originals with a watered down mixture of PVA wood glue. This will keep the hairs together better or longer and reduce if not eliminate the detritus that falls below.

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:16 pm

bald, say again? Are you saying that because the new rear seat bottom cover was longer—at the skirt—that its extra length made it more difficult for you to install your rear seat bottom. If so, I wonder how a little more material at the bottom does that. Because ... my rear seat bottom is a real bitch to get in. I used Wolfsburg West horsehair pads and TMI covers.

The rear seat bottom had a TMI cover on it before I replaced it with another TMI cover, so I had no way to compare.

Tim

Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:47 am

Thanks for all the replies, which seem to favor foam. Hmmm, I'll go ahead and replace with foam for now but am keeping the original stuff just in case I long for pure originality some day. I'll also apply glue to the bottom before wrapping the old stuff up for storing to help keep it all stay in one piece for that future day.

By the way, I have both the old original and new TMI covers front and rear and will measure the skirts later today.

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:46 am

Tim Donahoe wrote: bald, say again? Are you saying that because the new rear seat bottom cover was longer—at the skirt—that its extra length made it more difficult for you to install your rear seat bottom. If so, I wonder how a little more material at the bottom does that. Because ... my rear seat bottom is a real bitch to get in. I used Wolfsburg West horsehair pads and TMI covers.
Tim
Yes, that skirt on the replacement rear seat bottom was about an inch longer (“taller”) than the factory original. So when I put everything back together the first time, the entire rear seat bottom assembly ended up sitting about an inch taller (or “thicker”) as well.

I didn’t really notice / think much of it immediately, until I went to try and reinstall the seat bottom (i.e. put it back in the car). Had a heck of a time stuffing the rear edge under the seat back above it. Once I finally got it in and I tried sitting on it, my head was brushing against the headliner. So was definitely taller than the original. *sigh*. That’s when the OCD kicked in... :-)

I tore it all down again, shortened the lower skirt (sewing by hand — a PITA), and put back together. It does fit much better now.

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:00 am

I just measured the front base covers. Indeed the skirt on the new TMI is exactly one inch longer than the original. The skirt length on both is designed to vary as you move along from the front to the sides. But at every specific location, the TMI is one inch longer.

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:07 am

Tom K. wrote: I just measured the front base covers. Indeed the skirt on the new TMI is exactly one inch longer than the original. The skirt length on both is designed to vary as you move along from the front to the sides. But at every specific location, the TMI is one inch longer.
Tom, thanks for that! So it might explain why you need some extra foam padding on top of the horse hair pads for the front seats, to get them pulled down tight / wrinkle-free? I have no personal experience with that (haven’t redone my front seats yet), but something to think about, anyway. Hmmm...

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:43 am

I was just examining the rear seat covers. Wouldn't the extra skirt length just pull under, rather than adding height to the seat?

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:37 am

Tom, I thought the same thing. I’m assuming that the extra material doesn’t add height, since it folds under. But, man, my rear seat bottom is a bitch to get back in, so maybe bald is onto something.

Tim