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Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:08 pm

Hey all I’m restoring a 66 beetle. I replaced a bunch of metal around the car and the bodywork is all done. I used rattle can primer as I went along so now the body is on a dolly and has the rattle can primer on most of the car. Now I need to know where to go from here. I picked up a gallon of high build primer. So do I just shoot high build ,block and paint? Do I need to seal it first? I’m not sure exactly. Not looking for a show car paint job just something presentable. Thanks guys

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:19 pm

1. Sand off the rattle can primer. It is a terrible foundation for any paint job
2. Spray a two part epoxy
3. Do any bodywork
4. Spray a high build
5. Guide coat
6. Block down to 400 grit (600 for metallic)
7. Seal with reduced epoxy
8. Spray your single stage

Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:39 pm

jspbtown wrote: 1. Sand off the rattle can primer. It is a terrible foundation for any paint job
2. Spray a two part epoxy
3. Do any bodywork
4. Spray a high build
5. Guide coat
6. Block down to 400 grit (600 for metallic)
7. Seal with reduced epoxy
8. Spray your single stage . Oh boy. So the reason for step 2 is to seal the body work? And in step 7 to seal the high build? I was kinda hoping I could just shoot high build , block and paint Lolol. Was going to attempt to paint my self but it seems like little experience leads to too many things possibly going wrong. I thought the process would be just a bit more doable because of the fact that I don’t want a show stopper

Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:19 am

Don’t be put off by the amount of work or materials you need. The steps outlined above will give you a long lasting real nice paint job. Well worth doing it yourself and having the experience. Once you paint with automotive quality paint you will be amazed at the difference from the rattlecans. Check out the name brand paint companies econo brands. I have used Omni (PPG) with good results. Also TPG in San Diego great prices for paint and supplies. Go for it!

Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:58 am

Yes it can seem daunting but its not that bad. It is a day long process though. Here are some things I have found helpful in the garage jobs I have done.

1. Allows LOTS of extra flash times. If the product says 10 minutes then I will sometime allow 30 minutes depending on temp and airflow. I have found that the listed flash times are when conditions are perfect which they rarely are in garage paint jobs.

2. Rattle can primer is really not a great substrate for automotive paint. Epoxy is really what you should use. You can use it as a primer and as a sealer so it is pretty versatile.

3. Yes...step 3 is seal the high build. I have painted cars where I did not use a sealer and sprayed right over the high build and it came out fine. But when you think about it you are spraying the sealer and letting it dry for about an hour before you shoot your color. It really doesn't add any time. You shoot the sealer, let it dry a bit and then go right to the color.

4. Remember....a good quality paint job relies on two methods of bonding materials...chemical and mechanical. So you apply the epoxy to an abraded surface and let it cure (the epoxy is mechanically bonded to the abraded surface), do your bodywork, sand what ever filler, and scuff the epoxy. . Then the high build is sprayed and sticks because of the mechanical bond (ie: the scratches in the surface allow good bonding). You let that cure a few days (or longer) and then guidecoat it and sand. You have now created a surface for the sealer to bond to mechanically. Spray your sealer and after sufficient flash you apply your color and achieve a chemical bond.

4. You don't have to do this all in one day....Get the epoxy on in one day. Do all your body work over several days. Apply your high build in one day. Guidecoat it and sand another day. Then you have your long day of sealer and color. One coat of sealer and maybe an hour of curing. Then say 3 to 4 coats of color with 30 min of flash time....so so 4 hours?

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:59 pm

jspbtown wrote: Yes it can seem daunting but its not that bad. It is a day long process though. Here are some things I have found helpful in the garage jobs I have done.

1. Allows LOTS of extra flash times. If the product says 10 minutes then I will sometime allow 30 minutes depending on temp and airflow. I have found that the listed flash times are when conditions are perfect which they rarely are in garage paint jobs.

2. Rattle can primer is really not a great substrate for automotive paint. Epoxy is really what you should use. You can use it as a primer and as a sealer so it is pretty versatile.

3. Yes...step 3 is seal the high build. I have painted cars where I did not use a sealer and sprayed right over the high build and it came out fine. But when you think about it you are spraying the sealer and letting it dry for about an hour before you shoot your color. It really doesn't add any time. You shoot the sealer, let it dry a bit and then go right to the color.

4. Remember....a good quality paint job relies on two methods of bonding materials...chemical and mechanical. So you apply the epoxy to an abraded surface and let it cure (the epoxy is mechanically bonded to the abraded surface), do your bodywork, sand what ever filler, and scuff the epoxy. . Then the high build is sprayed and sticks because of the mechanical bond (ie: the scratches in the surface allow good bonding). You let that cure a few days (or longer) and then guidecoat it and sand. You have now created a surface for the sealer to bond to mechanically. Spray your sealer and after sufficient flash you apply your color and achieve a chemical bond.

4. You don't have to do this all in one day....Get the epoxy on in one day. Do all your body work over several days. Apply your high build in one day. Guidecoat it and sand another day. Then you have your long day of sealer and color. One coat of sealer and maybe an hour of curing. Then say 3 to 4 coats of color with 30 min of flash time....so so 4 hours? . Hey man thanks for taking the time out to reply. The bodywork is all done and most of the car is spot primed. So you suggest to sand all the rattle can primer off and than apply an epoxy primer? Than apply high build and block with guide coat. Than a sealer and let flash and than color? I always get confused with epoxy primer and sealer. I thought I heard someone tell me I can reduce the Omni high build that I already have to be used as a sealer. Is that true? Thanks again. You might be amping me up to do this. I already sprayed all my tins with rustoleum black and a hvlp gun and just added some hardener cane out good. Next I’m going to shoot my wheels with the same black as soon as I get them back from the blaster. One more thing. Like I said the entire car and all panels are primed well with rattlecan. It would be a ton of work to take everything off. Can’t I just epoxy or seal over it to lock it in. Than go to high build?

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:08 am

The primer is the foundation for everything. You can lay whatever you like on top of crap but you still have crap when the paint meets the metal. Remember....mechanical versus chemical bond. Since the rattle can is on there and "cured" (as cured as one part does) then you have to scuff it before you lay anything else on anyways. I think you might find that when you start to scuff most of it is gonna come off anyways. If the rattle can fails then all your other work is gonna come out like crap....be it right away or down the road a bit. And if it does....I assure you that you will be pissed off when it does

So my suggestion is to start scuffing it and be surprised how easily it comes off. Get as much as you can off and then shoot your epoxy. Now...depending on how much time you have you can let the epoxy cure for several days and then re-scuff and go to high build OR you can allow sufficient dry time for the epoxy (it will say how long it has to dry before a "top coat" ie: high build) and then lay down 2-3 heavy coats of high build.

Let the high build dry for several days. Then guide coat and sand.

Then reduce your left over epoxy (it will have instructions how to do that) and spray one sealer coat. Let that dry for the recommended amount (1/2 hour...1 hour...whatever) and then shoot your color (3-4 coats depending on how flat it lays down).

Always try to remember the bonding you are trying to achive...it has to be chemical or mechanical. Chemical is when you spray layers while the product is not fully cured and they chemically bond to each other. Mechanical is when you abrade the surface.

Why kind of single stage are you using?

For some motivation here are a few of my garage painted cars...