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Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:34 pm

Just came back a car show recently and found out a good amount of oil was dripping on the heater boxes and hitting the back of the exhaust and rear fenders. Did a further inspection the next day on the the car and found out on the left side of the engine the first push rod tube seal had finally gave out, with the others starting to follow suit. Meaning all of them need to be replace, using info i gather from this forum and the internet i found two candidates (CSP would have been one but there waaaaay out of my price range :shock: )

1) https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1514.htm

2) https://www.scatvw.com/product/adjustable-pushrod-tubes-set-of-8-for-one-complete-engine/

I want to know of any experiences with these products. Two main things i want know is first, are the springs on the jaycee ones too strong that they cause the seal's to be over squish? And second, are internal springs better than the external ones? Thanks.

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:05 pm

Spring loaded pushrod tubes should be used as temp fix with the intention to pull the engine and replace with solid one-piece tubes at the earliest available time. If you do spring loaded, avoid plastic ones.

Best option is, of course, to pull engine and replace with metal one-piece tubes. Many consider 'windage' style tubes to be superior. They help prevent 'slosh' of the oil and have a bit of extra inner clearance for higher lift rocker arms (although this adds an additional margin of clearance for stock lifter arms)

Stainless Steel of course also do not rust, so a plus as well.

A Recent, good discussion thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716799&highlight=windage

Many discussions on push rod tubes and replacement:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc...=titleonly

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:07 pm

did you use silicone sealer (RTV) on the tube gaskets? If you did, buying the best tubes available won't keep you from having leaks if you use RTV as a sealer again.

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:15 pm

I built an engine for a customer and he purchased the JC pushrod tubes. I I stalled them with the spring toward the case and after a few months 2 leaked. I reversed them with the spring toward the head and they stopped.leaking. I reversed the rest and no problems.

Btw, it the engine I'm building now will use stock stainless steel push rod tubes.

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:15 pm

The best combination I gave come up with so far is stainless steel windage tubes and Empi silicone tube seals. Do not use sealant on them. And you'll be able to reuse the SS pushrod tubes twice and after that they will crack on the bellows and leak.

brad

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:48 pm

I've had a set of those JayCee pushrod tubes in my machine for about 7 years now and I have never had a drop leak from them. They don't even sweat any oil.

However, there some things you can do to them that will help guarantee success: As Glenn mentioned, if this won't cause clearancing problems with your pushrods, you can install them backwards (meaning the big end toward the case and the spring end toward the head). That way, any oil that wants to leak out has to flow against the pull of gravity to do so. Also, the set I bought came with only one o-ring per tube, even though the tube was machined with two grooves for two o-rings. I bought a second set of good quality o-rings at the local hardware to put in there, and filled the gap in between the o-rings with silicone grease before assembling the tubes. I prefer to use the white donut seals on the ends, and I use a little oil-resistant sealant to "glue" them to the tubes a day or two before putting them on the engine. I know some people say not to do that, but the trick is to let the sealant harden up before installing the tubes on the engine, otherwise the sealant will actually act as a lubricant and you'll have your donut seals sliding around all over the place!

The nice thing about spring-loaded pushrod tubes is they expand and contract with the engine (just like the stock accordion-style tubes), and if you ever need to remove a tube, you don't have to destroy it or remove the head to get it out of there.

The only complaint I have is that I bought the black anodized ones, but over the years, the anodizing has faded from black to a sort of maroon/red color. They still look cool, though!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:22 am

The spring ones allow service without an engine pull, just get a set and worry about that bridge when you cross it, unless a days labor is worth the extra money for the spring kind. I keep a set on hand just to avoid an engine pull. Engine pull easy for someone who does not have a job and responsibilities that supersede. Or if you can mustard the strength after a shitty week at work to work more great get the solid ones.

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:48 am

Thanks for all the info and advice, i think i will go with the Jaycee tubs. And yes i know stock is better but when you live with a sibling that also has a classic car it limits the amount of work space you have in the garage. Also Floating VW im using stock push-rods would that cause clearance problems putting the spring end toward the head?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:04 am

Baja54 wrote: . . . Also Floating VW im using stock push-rods would that cause clearance problems putting the spring end toward the head?
What causes the clearance problem is high-lift rocker arms. If your rockers are stock 1.1:1, you won't have a problem.

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:33 pm

the jaycee style ones cb 1517 I have had excellent experience with they have an o ring on the internal sleeve as well as the stock style seals to the head/ motor. the SCAT / EMPI/ Bugpack has a similar style. have used both. (probably made by the same Chinese guy making 2.00 a week) both about 100$ for a set. they are a little tricky to install once you get the hang of how to squeeze them in it goes fast. it will take about an hour to install all 8. I would stay away from the nylon ones these make good toilet paper holders maybe because they are crap. a wise man once said " Buy quality Cry once" additionally there is a long running debate on sealers on the push rod tube seals I use gasgascinch brushed lightly on the pushrod seal against a clean surface between the seal and the head. that has worked for me. Cue the Haters in 1..2..

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:07 am

OK thanks, so this may be off topic but when watching or reading other people doing this process i have notice that some readjust the valves while others say you don't need to if your engine is running good. So the question do i need to readjust the valves?

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:20 am

Baja54 wrote: OK thanks, so this may be off topic but when watching or reading other people doing this process i have notice that some readjust the valves while others say you don't need to if your engine is running good. So the question do i need to readjust the valves?

I would definitely check and adjust the valves afterwards !!!

I've never used such push rod tubes myself, but would if I only needed to fix one or two. But I also would put the smaller-diameter tube at the cylinder head end (higher up), so would drain into the larger-diameter tube.

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:31 am

Quote: I also would put the smaller-diameter tube at the cylinder head end (higher up), so would drain into the larger-diameter tube.

I would think the larger diameter at the head because of the back & forth movement of the pushrod cycling the 'lever' (rocker-arm)

Besides, even CBP says to put the spring end near the case

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1514.htm

Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:15 am

Fine. As long as the inner oil seals remain 100% leakfree.

Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:35 am

runamoc wrote: Quote: I also would put the smaller-diameter tube at the cylinder head end (higher up), so would drain into the larger-diameter tube.

I would think the larger diameter at the head because of the back & forth movement of the pushrod cycling the 'lever' (rocker-arm)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier. The big end is supposed to go toward the cylinder head to avoid any problems with the pushrods rubbing on the tubes. But you won't have any problems with this if your rocker arms (the "levers") are stock ratio. The higher the ratio, the higher the angle between the lifter and the rocker arm, which brings the pushrod closer to the edge of the tube.

How high can you go before the pushrods rub? I have no idea. But as long as they don't rub, you're better off installing the pushrod tubes "backwards".

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:52 am

Floating VW wrote:

If no one else is gonna ask, I guess I will...what the heck is that glass jar?

Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:27 am

kangaboy wrote: If no one else is gonna ask, I guess I will...what the heck is that glass jar?
My guess it would be a "catch can" for oil instead of the stock "duckbill" set up.

Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:09 am

Cusser wrote: kangaboy wrote: If no one else is gonna ask, I guess I will...what the heck is that glass jar?
My guess it would be a "catch can" for oil instead of the stock "duckbill" set up.
Yep, well not for oil really, but mostly for condensation. My engine runs too cool and has difficulty getting the oil up to temp in the winter. This is what it looks like when it's full:

I don't want to highjack this thread, but I did a little write-up on it here, in case you want to read more about it:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=712040&highlight=