TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:45 pm

I have been reading a couple of other threads on this topic as well as some information from other sites. As I understand it, my 72 Super Beetle originally had a 4-prong headlight/dimmer relay. Now, I have only been able to locate 5-prong models. From what I have read, it says to jumper power to the #30 terminal from the #56 terminal to supply power to the #30 terminal or the relay won't work. Another thread that I have read says to supply constant power from the fuse box to the #30 terminal in order to have a "flash function." This I think I understand. It is, however, the "jumper" from terminal #30 to #56 that I don't quite get. Can anybody explain to me how to do this? Also, which method do you recommend doing? Or, finally, it is possible to find anywhere a 4-prong relay like the original? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:07 pm

RainbowManFan wrote: Another thread that I have read says to supply constant power from the fuse box to the #30 terminal in order to have a "flash function."

At least I can confirm that will work. This is how European cars are equipped.
Some decades ago I made this modification on a '79 Super from California.

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:23 pm

RainbowManFan wrote: I have only been able to locate 5-prong models. From what I have read, it says to jumper power to the #30 terminal from the #56 terminal to supply power to the #30 terminal or the relay won't work. Another thread that I have read says to supply constant power from the fuse box to the #30 terminal in order to have a "flash function." This I think I understand. It is, however, the "jumper" from terminal #30 to #56 that I don't quite get. Can anybody explain to me how to do this?
Key point to understand with the 5-prong relays... terminal #30 needs to be powered for your headlights to work. Whether it is powered by a dedicated constant 12v red wire coming from the fuse box... or you create a jumper wire between #56 and #30 so #30 is powered anytime the dimmer relay is powered from the headlight switch. As long as #30 has 12v when you want to use your headlights you are fine.

Why would you want to run a direct (red) wire from the fuse box to the #30 terminal on the dimmer relay? It will enable the "flash' function which is not available on the 4-prong relay. If you connect the #30 to a constant 12v source it will allow you to pull the dimmer switch (turn signal arm) even when the headlights are OFF and the high beams will turn ON for as long as you hold the dimmer switch closed.
If you jumper the #30 to the #56 terminal the dimmer relay is ONLY powered when the ignition switch is ON and the headlight switch is fully on (2nd ON position). While either the ignition switch or the headlight switch is OFF, the dimmer system is disabled. In this configuration (jumper wire) the 5-prong relay acts exactly like a 4-prong relay.

What is meant by adding a jumper between the #30 and #56?
Your dimmer relay is probably located in the relay bridge on the fuse box. Remove the relay and look at the position of the terminals. If you used to have a 4-prong it is likely you only have four wires connected to the bridge below the relay position. Confirm the correct colored wires connect to the correct numbered terminal on the relay.
#56 (white/black) - INPUT 12v power from headlight switch when it is ON
#56a (white) - OUTPUT to high beam fuses
#56b (yellow) - OUTPUT to low beam fuses
#S (brown/white) - INPUT ground from dimmer switch in turn signal switch assembly
It is likely you will need to run a wire to the #30 position of the relay as it will be empty. The relay bridge uses locking female terminals to hold them in the bridge. To remove the terminals you need to insert a small jewler's screwdriver from the relay side to depress the clip holding the terminal in from the bottom.
If you want to power the #30 terminal from the headlight switch you would remove the white/black #56 wire from the relay bridge and splice a short length of red wire to it. Ideally, you would snip the female terminal off the wire strip off the end and crimp a new one on, but merge the red wire with it. This will have both the white/black wire and your new red wire connected to the #56 terminal.
At the other end of the red wire crimp another female locking terminal. Insert this into the relay bridge so it presses onto the #30 terminal of the 5-prong relay. When done, your #30 relay terminal will now be powered by the white/black wire coming from the headlight switch. Anytime the headlight switch is powering the relay it is powering BOTH the #56 and #30 terminals.
Alternatively, use a longer length of red wire and connect the #30 terminal of the relay to the fuse box. Connect it to the INPUT side of one of the fuses that have 12v constantly. This will allow the #30 terminal of the relay to be powered all the time. Once done and the new 5-prong relay is installed, you should be able to pull on the dimmer switch while the ignition is OFF and the headlights will "flash". You have a cool new function on your 47-yr old car! Who said you can't teach an "old dog" new tricks! 8)

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:07 pm

Thank you so much, Ashman40. I am not very mechanically/electrically inclined but the way you explained it made perfect sense. Now it doesn't seem nearly as daunting a task to fix. I am going to go the route of adding the red wire from the fuse box to create the flash function as I think it makes more sense to just go ahead and do it that way. I do have one more quick question for you if you would be so kind...I remember from some of my earlier VW's that if the headlights were left on while the switch was turned off, only the parking lights would stay on. In this particular car, they stay on no matter what and also when I pull out the headlight switch instead of getting just the parking lights at the first notch and then the headlights at the second notch, the headlights immediately come on in the parking light position as well. Any ideas what could be causing this and how to correct it?

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:29 am

RainbowManFan wrote: I remember from some of my earlier VW's that if the headlights were left on while the switch was turned off, only the parking lights would stay on. In this particular car, they stay on no matter what and also when I pull out the headlight switch instead of getting just the parking lights at the first notch and then the headlights at the second notch, the headlights immediately come on in the parking light position as well. Any ideas what could be causing this and how to correct it?
From the '71 model year onward, VW added the "X" cricuit. Think of the black/yellow "X" wire as an ACCESSORIES circuit, or maybe it would be better to call it a "low priority" ignition powered circuit. It is an extra wire from the ignition switch which is power when the ignition key is in the ON/RUN position. But unlike the #15 (black wire) ignition circuit, "X" is NOT powered when the key is turned to the START position. This shuts down power to the devices on the "X" circuit WHILE the starter is cranking the engine. Basically freeing up power when the starter needs the most from the battery.

In '71 the "X" circuit ONLY powered the headlights. In later years it was given its own fuse (fuse #10) and powered things like wipers and the blower motor. To support the "X" circuit the headlight switch was updated in '71. Prior to '71 the headlight switch had a single INPUT, #30 constant 12v from the battery. This allowed BOTH the parking lights and the headlights to work all the time as they were not dependent to the ignition switch for power. From '71 onward, the headlight switch became two separate switches in one. The #30 terminal INPUT continue to power the parking lights which meant they could be turned ON even while the ignition switch was OFF. But the headlights were now powered by the "X" INPUT terminal. The headlights were now dependent on the ignition switch being ON. So if you came to a stop at night with your headlights ON and turned the key to OFF, the headlights would be powered down and only the parking lights would remain ON. Turn the key to ON/RUN and the headlights come back ON.

It sounds like either:
1) Someone used a pre-'71 headlight switch in place of the proper switch.
2) Someone has done something similar to what I described with the dimmer relay but with your headlight switch... spliced a jumper between the #30 and "X" terminals so the headlights are powered by constant battery 12v.
Take a look at your headlight switch. Look for the black/yellow wire and the "X" terminal. Are they connected together? Do you even have an "X" terminal on the headlight switch?

Neither switch is better than the other, but the "X" circuit passes thru the ignition switch which means the load of the headlight passes thru the ignition switch. This can wear on the internal contacts of the ignition switch. Over time these contacts will get burnt and eventually they will fail. The #30 powered headlights draw their power from the fuse box (or directly from the battery) which means the current draw doesn't tax the ignition switch. I also feel that having the option of turning ON the headlights w/o the key is a plus and not a problem... unless of course you forget that you left your headlights ON and it kills your battery :P

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:22 am

Quote: I also feel that having the option of turning ON the headlights w/o the key is a plus and not a problem ...

Good point! 8)

Quote: ... unless of course, you forget that you left your headlights ON and it kills your battery

Therefore, that annoying (but battery-saving) little "buzzer" that all(?) modern vehicles are equipped with. :oops:

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Hey I just found this post. Can you guys tell me where that headlight relay is? I've got a 73 Super Beetle with no power to any of the fuses that run the headlights.

The switch went out I replaced it and when the lights still didn't work that's when I realized it was my fuses. I knew the rocker switch went out when it melted it would not go back to the off position.

Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:11 pm

The headlight dimmer relay on the '73 SB is mounted to the relay bridge next to the fuse box. Look for the relay with the solid white and solid yellow wire. These are the OUTPUT wires that power the fuses before going to the headlight filaments. The white/black wire at the relay is the INPUT wire coming from the headlight switch.

Just remember that on post-'71 Beetles the headlights were powered from the ignition switch via the "X" circuit. So the headlights will not work while the ignition key is in the OFF or START positions.
The parking lights are still powered by the battery so work at all times.

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:23 pm

I've been working on my 74 super wiring recently and ran across this thread. My dimmer relay has the 5 terminals but the bridge doesn't have but four wires.

If I understand correctly, then I can run a constant hot(red) wire to the bridge and therefore be able to flash the headlights.

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:53 pm

Correct, tap into circuit #30 (red) and jump to #56 on the relay (~12 ga wire) to make it work.

Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:36 pm

If you are making the new red wire yourself, you will want to find a locking female terminal to crimp to the end of the wire. This is inserted from below the bridge and the small clip will lock it into the bridge.

You can make a non-locking terminal work by pushing it up so it seats onto the male spade on the relay, but there is a good chance it could vibrate loose if not fully seated. Since the red wire will have constant 12v you really don't want it flopping around loose behind the dash.... Sparks+Fire! :shock:

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 pm

I have a European model 1972 Super Beetle and I also have the correct wiring diagram for the car. My car came with the 5-terminal dimmer relay. The #30 terminal has power from the #8 fuse location. In addition there is a wire that runs from the same location (before the fuse) to the #30 terminal on the E1 headlight switch. My headlight switch also has the X terminal and the BK/YW wire from the ignition switch X terminal. Based upon what Ashman40 wrote, the #56 terminal on the headlight switch must get the power not from #30 but from the X terminal on the ignition switch and through the fuse connection for #10. The power doesn't go through the fuse but simply connects to the bar connecting 10, 11, and 12 fuse locations. The BK/YW from the ignition switch is 4.0 sq.mm. and the BK/YW wire going to the headlight switch is 2.5 sq. mm.

I am getting this from the wiring diagram for the German Super Beetle (1302/1302S) with dynamo from August 1971 (1972 Models). This is almost identical to the wiring diagram for the UK models and the models sent to Italy.

I have a wiring diagram for a 1972 model that was built for the US market and there are many differences. My parking lights are in the headlight reflector and when substituted with LEDs it is bright enough to drive in the city without using the low beams. I have no buzzer to remind you to turn off the headlights or take out the ignition key. There is no reminder noise for fastening your front seat belt=shoulder harness. The front fender and rear directional lights use 1156 bulbs (single contact-single filament). The only dual filament bulb is for the parking and brake light functions in the rear. I don't have back up lights but I plan on installing them. My car came with the fresh air fan but it is toast with melted brush holders.

I am trying to get it ready for inspection on Monday morning but I have a strange thing going on. Without the headlight switch on I get headlights if I plugin the headlight dimmer switch. I pulled back on the directional signal handle but I don't get any clicking sound. I think there is something wrong with the switch not the relay. It worked 3 months ago when I started the brake caliper rebuild and the ignition switch electrical and mechanical replacement (works great now). I am thinking that the mechanical dimmer switch has something wrong with it. The directional signals work very well and there may be a problem with the E-flasher switch; I may replace it with Ashman's experimental switch relays.

Does anyone know if there is a mechanical problem with the dimmer switch on the steering column? It seems to be in an ON position with or without the headlight switch being on or off.

The wiring in the car matches the diagram I posted here. The relays are for the emergency flasher switch design that Ashman40 has posted on another forum.

I will drop Everitt a note and ask him if he wants to post the wiring diagram. The original I have can be printed to poster size greater than 24 X36 with no loss of quality. If anyone is looking for a locking female spade terminal, drop me a note and I can fix you up with tin plated brass terminals that will lock into the receptacle in the bridge. The place it locks into will also protect against shorts.

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:07 pm

DesignBuild wrote: I have a European model 1972 Super Beetle
My car came with the 5-terminal dimmer relay.
The #30 terminal has power from the #8 fuse location.
In addition there is a wire that runs from the same location (before the fuse) to the #30 terminal on the E1 headlight switch.
My headlight switch also has the X terminal and the BK/YW wire from the ignition switch X terminal.
Based upon what Ashman40 wrote, the #56 terminal on the headlight switch must get the power... from the X terminal on the ignition switch and through the fuse connection for #10. The power doesn't go through the fuse but simply connects to the bar connecting 10, 11, and 12 fuse locations.
The BK/YW from the ignition switch is 4.0 sq.mm. and the BK/YW wire going to the headlight switch is 2.5 sq. mm.
All of the above sounds fine except for the bit I highlighted above. When VW came out with the black/yellow "X" circuit in the '71 model year it did not dedicate a fuse to this circuit. The black/yellow wire from the ignition switch ran to the headlight switch "X" terminal where it powered the headlights. For the '71 model year the ignition switch powered 3 fuses #10-#12 as you described. From '72-onward fuse #10 was separate from fuses #11 & #12 and dedicated to the "X" circuit. So if you have a fuse box where all three fuses share a common input it may not be a '72 fuse box. Maybe there was some overlap with the continued use of the '71 fuse box into the '72 model year?

DesignBuild wrote: I have no buzzer to remind you to turn off the headlights or take out the ignition key. There is no reminder noise for fastening your front seat belt=shoulder harness. The front fender and rear directional lights use 1156 bulbs (single contact-single filament). The only dual filament bulb is for the parking and brake light functions in the rear. I don't have back up lights but I plan on installing them.
Not sure if any mid-'70s Beetle had a headlight warning buzzer?? Ignition key and seat belt buzzer was common.

DesignBuild wrote: I am trying to get it ready for inspection on Monday morning but I have a strange thing going on. Without the headlight switch on I get headlights if I plugin the headlight dimmer switch. I pulled back on the directional signal handle but I don't get any clicking sound. I think there is something wrong with the switch not the relay. It worked 3 months ago when I started the brake caliper rebuild and the ignition switch electrical and mechanical replacement (works great now). I am thinking that the mechanical dimmer switch has something wrong with it. The directional signals work very well and there may be a problem with the E-flasher switch; I may replace it with Ashman's experimental switch relays.

Does anyone know if there is a mechanical problem with the dimmer switch on the steering column? It seems to be in an ON position with or without the headlight switch being on or off.
Check the dimmer switch at the base of the turn signal lever. It is a simple contact switch with two brass leaves. When you pull the lever it brings the two contacts together.

Over time the contacts can get stuck where they are in constant contact. This means the "S" terminal on the dimmer relay is constantly grounded. If the 5-prong dimmer relay has constant 12v on the #30 terminal the grounded "S" terminal energizes the relay all the time. While the relay is energized like this it will power the high beam circuit (flash to pass function). The 4-prong dimmer relay may still suffer from this but since these relays are only powered by the headlight switch it isn't a problem until the headlights are powered.

Slide a thin piece of plastic between the dimmer switch contacts and see if this fixes the problem? If so, you can work the two contacts w/ a screwdriver to open them up when at rest. I used to do this a couple times a year with my dimmer switch.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:25 pm

Recycling this post because I have a related problem. On my '73 Super Beetle, the headlights only work on high beam.

Headlights are operated by a 3-position rocker switch on the dashboard. While the car is running, I think the low beams should come on in the middle position, but they don't. From looking at the Bentley manual and this post, I think I may have a bad headlight dimmer relay, so I'm going to replace it with a new one and see if that fixes the problem.

I can get a new relay on JBugs for $23.95. Before I spend the money, are there other things I should check? I used a voltmeter to confirm that the low beam prong on the back of the headlight isn't getting 12V.

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:18 pm

minimeadow wrote: On my '73 Super Beetle, the headlights only work on high beam.

Headlights are operated by a 3-position rocker switch on the dashboard. While the car is running, I think the low beams should come on in the middle position, but they don't.
Is the rocker switch you are describing the stock headlight switch? Like this one?

The stock headlight switch has three positions:
OFF
Parking lights only
Headlights + Parking lights
So if you have a stock headlight switch the headlights should not turn ON in the middle position.
In your description it wasn't clear if you have no headlights at all, or you only have HI beams? Since you are only complaining about low beams I'm going to assume you have HI beams when you turn your headlight switch fully ON.

The headlight switch only provides power to the headlights. It doesn't select which headlight filaments are selected. The selection of the HI or LOW beams is done with the headlight dimmer switch at the base of the turn signal lever (pic above). When you pull the turn signal arm towards you it closes the dimmer switch contacts and grounds the "S" terminal on the dimmer relay. This energizes the relay and toggles the output of the dimmer relay. switching HI-to-LOW or LOW-to-HI.

As mentioned above, depending on whether you have a 4 or 5-prong dimmer relay the relay may need the headlight switch fully ON before the dimmer relay works (4-prong).

So, move the headlight switch to the 3rd position where the headlights are ON. Pull on the turn signal arm (dimmer switch) and listen for the click of the dimmer relay energizing. The headlights should swap each time you pull on the turn signal arm.

If the HI or LOW beams do not work, first check your fuses. There is one fuse for each headlight filament. That means 4 fuses (3~6). With the LOW beams ON, two of these fuses will be powered. Switch to the HIGH beams and the other two will be powered. Test the fuses for power to see if the dimmer relay output is actually switching when you activate the dimmer relay,

If there is only ever power on two fuses and the relay never clicks, check that the brown "S" wire at the relay is grounded each time you pull on the turn signal arm (dimmer switch). If the "S" terminal is not grounded the dimmer relay will continue to pass current to one of the outputs (HI or LOW) and never change.

If a pair of fuses are powered and the "S" terminal on the dimmer relay is being grounded by the dimmer switch, check your dimmer relay. Post a pic and explain what colored wires are connected to the relay. Many people have made the mistake of thinking they can use an inexpensive SPDT Bosch-style relay in place of the dimmer relay. This is not the case. The dimmer relay is a special "latching relay". This is why they tend to be more $$.

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:00 pm

Ashman,

Thank you for the detailed response! It turns out that my headlights are working just the way they are supposed to, and the problem was operator error. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to pull the turn signal stalk, since that's the way most modern cars work. I guess it's not a feature I associate with old cars.

Next on my list - the front parking lights and the horn. I'll be back if I get stuck on those.

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:08 pm

minimeadow wrote: It turns out that my headlights are working just the way they are supposed to, and the problem was operator error.

minimeadow says "Never mind !!!!"

Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:07 am

OK, I will also "re-cycle" this thread because I ran into the same issues on my bug.. ('73 standard)
Working on the electric system, among other things, the dimmer relay was not working.. Why? because there was no relay, only a jumper from 56 to 56b....So the lights would work when pulling the switch, but no high beams, of course..
SO I order the relay and the dimmer/turn signal switch, because the contacts for the high beam were very corroded.
Once I had everything installed, still no high beams ! Thats when I started to search for answers here, and found this thread.
Installed a wire supplying 12v to the #30 terminal of the relay, and everything works as it should.

Funny thing is, none of all the wiring diagrams in my Bentley manual show a 5 prong dimmer relay, only 4 prong.
This is what had me stumped at first, I got a 5 prong relay, ther are 5 slots for it on the relay bar, so it fits, no problem, and I just could not get it to work....
Now I know..... :)

Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:29 pm

MTT3107 wrote: Funny thing is, none of all the wiring diagrams in my Bentley manual show a 5 prong dimmer relay, only 4 prong.
The US-spec Beetles only ever came with a 4-prong dimmer relay. Non-US Beetles came with 5-prong dimmer relays with the extra #30 terminal from back in the 60's. See "J2" in the below '66 wiring diagram:

In the '70's you have to look at the non-US wiring diagrams like this '71 SB (see "J" below):

Or this '73-'75 Model 1200 wiring diagram:

The problem today is you can only find 5-prong replacement dimmer relays.

Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:03 pm

Thanks for that info, wasn't aware of that.
Anyways, thanks to the info here problem is already solved.

Just funny that jbugs and all the other places will sell you a 5 prong relay, supposedly the correct one for my model & year, although will not be "plug&play"....
My bug was wired for a 4 prong, so without the modification it wouldn't work.