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Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:15 am

So I have a old 6V starter rewound for 12V that died the other day and I was looking at getting a new one (Tried cleaning solenoid and grounds, battery at 13 volts) . I found some reasonably priced self supported ones On orielys website, but I wanted to know how many teeth the throw out gear should have for a 6V flywheel. Anyone happen to know, or should I just pull my starter to find out?
Would either one of these work well for my application, one better then the other?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/bosch-3073/ch...&pos=2

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/ultima-4536/c...&pos=1

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:35 am

The tooth count is different for the two flywheels and starters. The flywheels are different on other 'things'. Like how they 'mate' with the engine crankshaft.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 am

If you have the 6v flywheel. It'll be fine as long as you don't have to crank it for 15 seconds every time to start it.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:52 am

Flywheel wheel ring gear for 6 Volt is 109 teeth.

Flywheel wheel ring gear for 12 Volt is 130 teeth.

There are a couple odd variations of flywheel diameters and tooth counts but they are not to common.

The gear on starter has to match tooth count on flywheel.

There are a few 12 volt starters out there with 6 volt gears.

Simple solution as mentioned above is use 6 volt starter and just keep engine in good tune so it starts easy and do not overheat 6 volt starter with excessive cranking.. Many people have done this and run them for years... Also if it smokes there are many old but good 6 volt starters around.

Dale

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:17 am

Car starts first time with a bump, but she is a restore so there was a lot of cranking a few months ago, I’m guessing that killed the starter, does anyone know the tooth count on the starter it’s self for a 6V flywheel compatible starter?
Thanks for all the info though, if it comes down to it I’ll buy the 6V from j-bugs but I was hopeing to get the one my local oriely would work first.I wanted to confirm the tooth count on the starter was right.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 am

You can't use a 12v self supporting starter on a 6v flywheel. The gear pitch is different and it will chew up the flywheel.

Just get a 6v non-suppored starter and run it on 12v. Don't crank on it.

Or order a 12v starter with 6v gears. Search the classified on here. I think there is someone who makes them, but they are not cheap.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:08 am

liquidrush wrote: If you have the 6v flywheel. It'll be fine as long as you don't have to crank it for 15 seconds every time to start it.

Bro!!.. Bro?? No!

... and the other.. consider it ignored.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:15 am

Anyone know what a 6V starter gear looks like, how many teeth, difference from 12V starter gear. I think I found a 12V system with a 6V gear but I’m not sure.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:21 pm

M. Notary wrote: liquidrush wrote: If you have the 6v flywheel. It'll be fine as long as you don't have to crank it for 15 seconds every time to start it.

Bro!!.. Bro?? No!

... and the other.. consider it ignored.

I've been running a 6v autozone duralast starter on 12v for years with no issues. It's fine. And yes, I've even used the starter motor to move the car over when I've vapor locked in traffic.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:46 pm

True Dat!
A 6 Volt starter will work just fine on 12 Volts.
It just spins faster.
If you’re worried about the solenoid you can put a 5 buck resistor in line to drop the voltage of that wire.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:13 pm

KingCarGuyZ wrote: Anyone know what a 6V starter gear looks like, how many teeth, difference from 12V starter gear. I think I found a 12V system with a 6V gear but I’m not sure.

I think its the same number of teeth, just different size. There is a difference on the inside shaft thicknesses. Probably easiest way to tell other than the markings on the case.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:43 pm

Those Germans who made these where they are not fungible should have their asses kicked up around their shoulder blades.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:54 pm

rugblaster wrote: Those Germans who made these where they are not fungible should have their asses kicked up around their shoulder blades.

There is no money in fungibility, only propriety.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:02 pm

Bummer, I was hope to upgrade a little to one like the auto transmissions came with, but pulling the flywheel while it needs to happen will probably wait for when the clutch dies. I guess I’ll go with the auto zone 6V option, thanks for all the help.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:15 am

KingCarGuyZ wrote: Anyone know what a 6V starter gear looks like, how many teeth, difference from 12V starter gear. I think I found a 12V system with a 6V gear but I’m not sure.

The number of teeth is the same. It's the diameter of the gear that changed. This changed rolled out during model year 1966 on the Ghia model. The SR11 starter is the normal 6V starter used with the smaller diameter ring-gear-flywheel. The SR13X was the first stab at a starter with the larger diameter ring gear flywheel. and was self-supporting, the 12V SR17X Autostick starter somewhat derived from this.

This note doesn't reflect the early rollout on Ghias, but the change overall for model year 67:

Starter gear sizes:

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:23 am

Thank you, that was the info I was looking for, for those that may come and read this latter I wound up going with a 6V duralast (autozone) starter and spinning it with 12, sounds like a little demon when she starts, but starts faster then ever and whenever I turn the key.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:30 am

I hate to say it but I don't "surf" the threads on TheSamba like I issued to, otherwise I'd have answered your question earlier. Often times I don't need to look very deep because I've often already discussed a ton of things and people quote me, and/or my images (and I that's totally OK)

Anyhow, I always thought the sound of a 6V starter running on 12V, (FIRMLY ENGAGED, I should add), "sounds" like a lot of modern car starters. As such I don't get worried by it.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:20 am

I have been using a 6-volt starter and a 6-volt flywheel in my buggy with 12-volt electrical system since 1976. No problem for many years; but... by 1990, there would be times when I turn the key and the starter would just spin. Easy to solve this; just put her in gear, push forward and/or back (to move flywheel where some teeth are left to engage with starter pinion gear). Eventually tho, there came the day when the starter pinion seized into the flywheel, jam'd so tight, it required some really hard rocking (rear tires sliding) to break it loose, just to get where a push start became possible. Here's how the flywheel look'd:

Of course I knew that that day would come, 'cuz the spining starter thing was happening more and more frequently. So I had found and stash'd a good used 6-volt flywheel, and purchased a 12-volt solenoid. Those went in when the above flywheel came out, 2004. So it's now been 15 years of trouble free, clean sounding starts every time I turn the key.

Bottom line: 6-volt starter and flywheel work fine in 12-volt system; but if you want it to last, use a 12-volt solenoid.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:51 pm

Have had decent luck on a couple cars with 6V starter on 12V system. BUT I have replaced a couple flywheels this year that were chewed up by 6V starters....Andy showed you the gear diameter, but the shaft itself is a different diameter. There are conversion bushings or 6V in 12V tranny and vice versa. Too lasy to go measure them for you BUT looked on CIP1 and they show the bushing for 6V being 12.4 mm ID, so your 6V shaft is around 12mm.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:27 pm

MrGoodtunes wrote: I have been using a 6-volt starter and a 6-volt flywheel in my buggy with 12-volt electrical system since 1976. No problem for many years; but... by 1990, there would be times when I turn the key and the starter would just spin. Easy to solve this; just put her in gear, push forward and/or back (to move flywheel where some teeth are left to engage with starter pinion gear). Eventually tho, there came the day when the starter pinion seized into the flywheel, jam'd so tight, it required some really hard rocking (rear tires sliding) to break it loose, just to get where a push start became possible. Here's how the flywheel look'd:

Of course I knew that that day would come, 'cuz the spining starter thing was happening more and more frequently. So I had found and stash'd a good used 6-volt flywheel, and purchased a 12-volt solenoid. Those went in when the above flywheel came out, 2004. So it's now been 15 years of trouble free, clean sounding starts every time I turn the key.

Bottom line: 6-volt starter and flywheel work fine in 12-volt system; but if you want it to last, use a 12-volt solenoid.

Holy shite, that flywheel is toast! I've had it where my 6V starter didn't want to engage when running 12V, and long ago learned the trick of putting the car in gear and rocking it, a little, to move the engine ever so slightly, then it engages just fine... but even then I never, EVER had anything like that kind of wear. Actually, in my case, I was starting to think about blaming the starter itself. That is because I now have the flywheel/clutch sitting nearby on the floor, as I experimented with something else the last time I had that engine out, and just took a photo of the worst of the teeth, really, it's NOTHING like that image above!.