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Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:00 pm

I realize this may be sacrilege for some here and a crazy idea to boot BUT, I'm thinking about glassing in some rust gaps on the package shelf of my '70 Ghia vert.

The Ghia isn't going to win any car shows: it's been outside, barely survived a wildfire and has more than a few cosmetic issues. We want a fun daily driver that looks nice. we're not worried about making money off of it later. We plan a new carpet set, new vert top and some body fairing and paint. It runs like a top: drivetrain is solid.

The package shelf in question, and the fiberglass, will be covered by sound deadener and carpet so we'll never see it. I've removed majority of the rust and plan to spray undercoating on the bottom before glassing the top. The rust damage is in the corners and a number of holes on the shelf itself. I've had pretty good success with glass repair on other projects that take a lot of stress and pounding (marine) and think this might save a search for a package shelf and ensuing cutting and brazing/welding. Even if I do have a nice TIG welder in the garage.

So besides anyone wishing me to burn in H-E-double-hockey-sticks for the idea, has anyone done similar? What am I missing?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:22 pm

HERETIC!!!

:twisted:

It's your car, if this approach keeps you in the car enjoying it, do it, who cares how much the next owner cusses you. :lol:

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:26 pm

Fiberglass is great. It's easy to work with and versatile. I think it's great to use on floor pans and the like since it is so easy to lay down. I just glassed the drivers side floor pan of one of my dailies.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:43 pm

We can burn in Hell together. :twisted:

I have similar damage in, and plans for, my luggage area. Although I have a complete, intact replacement part provided by the the PO, I plan to use it as a base to create a removable hatch in the luggage compartment. I will then pass it on to someone who needs it for a real restoration. My Ghia will most likely have a Subaaru engine and transaxel so the hatch will grant easy access to the spinning bits.

I will offer you this advice:
- Wire wheel all the metal and get it as clean and rust free as possible
- Remove any metal that is not at or near its original thickness
- Treat all the cleaned metal with Ospho or similar product and allow to fully dry
- Wipe with acetone or other cleaner
- Coat the metal with MasterSeries silver and top coat with a quality rattle-can paint or bedliner coating.
- Finally patch with glass

If you get creative you can use intact adjacent metal to create a negative mold. The mold can then be used as a backer for the glass you use to cover the the damage. This way you end up with the OE look and feel under the carpet.

-----
Emil

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:53 pm

By the time I was done with it, my old 71 had complete fiberglass floor pans.
The rest of the car was a basket case too.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:05 pm

IF you remove as much rust as possible, THEN use a rust converter product to prevent it from rusting any more, then sure. Just undercoating doesnt do crap. We are redoing repairs on a car that has NEVER been outside since a hack shop worked on it 20 years ago. As we peel away tack welded hack repairs, we have rust behind it.

Deal with the rust and then glass away to your hearts content.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:14 pm

OK, I'm old.......... I'll,admit it.
I've been involved with cars as a hobby or profission since the early 1960's. 50+ years.
I've pretty much lived my life in the rusty NorthEast.
Rust is a way of life.

I have never, never, ever seen a rust repair done with fiberglass withstand the test of time.,
It is a fast dirty cheap way to hide rust, nothing more.

If you want to do a job today knowing that you WILL do the same job again later...... go ahead and fiberglass rust repairs.

It has historical been a butchers way to "fix" a rusty auto body and continues to be a butchers way to "fix" a rusty auto body in 2019.

I've no respect for fiberglass rust repair.

Dave

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:19 pm

I can't see why a proper fibreglass repair should not keep rust out for good. I had a cracked and broken dash pad and used fibreglass to fix it.

Mind, it wasn't a metal piece, but fibreglassing it allowed me - not a metal worker by any stretch of the imagination - to do a simple repair to a part that will never see daylight again.

Go for it: it's your car, as some members here often remind us.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:43 pm

Judging from your description, it’d seem silly to NOT fiberglass it. Unless you have a fetish for perfect package trays. Do it, drive it, and enjoy it.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:46 pm

Fiberglass repairs have a tendency to separate from the base metal,but for a quick fix it works and gets the car usable.If I was doing it,I would want to sandblast the area that the glass will stick to.When it eventually falls off you'll probably have time and money to weld metal in.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:50 am

Monster, this is the process I used and the strength is incredible. Try it out on your own. My welding skills suck and I am cash limited via ovarian influence.

Wire wheel down to metal.
Use degreaser, let dry, wipe clean with acetone or spirits.
Etch metal. Let dry, wipe any residue.
BONE DRY is correct it does not stick well if not dry or has residue.
Apply one coat of POR 15, let it get tacky, lay down glass in lengths you can work with (like 4 by 12 inches).
Press it into POR 15 base and immediately apply another coat.
You should let it get tacky and apply another coat. Make sure there are no air gaps or bubbles because it gets hard as stone...the metal is already protected since the stuff is covering the metal, the bubbles make it hard to lay substrate on it (carpet or sound deadening material)
Wait 24 hours, dont touch it or look, just leave it alone.

A six pack of the pic below can do a whole pan, so two cans should do the area you want. It is super strong and if done properly will last a very long time if not exposed to the sun. Also, it will not melt your glass so there will be some texture to it. You would have to use the resin that can melt the styrene but you dont need to... the POR 15 dry is harder than the glass with resin.

These are the products I used, total cost 9 bucks for POR 15 and 6 bucks for that bag o glass.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:00 am

Without seeing the area to be repaired its hard to say what the best solution should be. As mentioned fiberglass to metal repairs can be problematic with separation from the metal.

A lot of progress has been made with panel repairs that utilize panel adhesive. This stuff is used extensively to bond panels on new cars.

Perhaps you should consider a metal repair patch using panel adhesive rather than fiberglass?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:39 am

There's this stuff called "panel adhesive," when used correctly it's as strong as a spot weld. There is no earthly reason to use glass. You can lap the metal, glue and bond it, and have a legit repair instead of some risky rinky dink embarrassment of a repair which might fail you. The cost is going to be about the same.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 am

Phil Swift used Flex Glue to put together his dune buggy, and check out how well it holds together ...

:shock:

:wink:
Seriously, though, to nobody's surprise apparently Flex Glue doesn't really hold up as well IRL as it does on the television commercial. :)

However, I'm sure that a proper panel adhesive would be a good viable alternative method of repair in your case and would likely be much less messy and time consuming when compared to using fiberglass.

Good luck on the repair whichever method you decide to use.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:13 am

Keep in mind there are a few systems to do fiberglass. There's the commonly available polyester. There is also the West Marine Epoxy which I prefer. It's stronger and a bit easier to work with but it does come at a cost.

The 105 Resin and 205 Hardener go well together. Make sure to get their pumps as well. This way you can do one-to-one pump of each that will measure out correctly. It takes the guess work out of mixing the hardener in.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:28 am

Quick follow-up: I ended up using POR 15 with 4 inch, 6 oz fiberglass tape. I brushed a layer of POR on first then laid the glass in the POR. The glass wetted out quick and conformed very easily to the stamping in the original metal. After another layer of POR on top, using the brush to push the glass into crevices, it cured well, didn't pull up and looks great now. Seems very durable, especially the 90-degree corners. I like the idea of using a rust-preventive like POR in conjunction with glass - seems like a good combo.

Sound deadener and carpet will go on top so I won't see it again unless it noticeably fails. On to the convertible restoration!

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:28 am

Oh, and thanks for all the recommendations! :D

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:23 am

Glad it worked out Monster. There have been people in the hot-rod forums that have used it for years and it apparently holds up well. I used it 10 years ago for a different car and it was solid. The few spots I used it on the ghia are not load bearing in any way so it should last for quite a while.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:19 am

iboughtrustandbondo wrote: Glad it worked out Monster. There have been people in the hot-rod forums that have used it for years and it apparently holds up well. I used it 10 years ago for a different car and it was solid. The few spots I used it on the ghia are not load bearing in any way so it should last for quite a while.

Yeah, thanks for the idea! Also, it doesn't look half-bad as long as you keep everything smooth. Almost a carbon-fiber look if you covered something with a full sheet.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:20 pm

MonsterMovie wrote: Quick follow-up: I ended up using POR 15 with 4 inch, 6 oz fiberglass tape. I brushed a layer of POR on first then laid the glass in the POR. The glass wetted out quick and conformed very easily to the stamping in the original metal. After another layer of POR on top, using the brush to push the glass into crevices, it cured well, didn't pull up and looks great now. Seems very durable, especially the 90-degree corners. I like the idea of using a rust-preventive like POR in conjunction with glass - seems like a good combo.

Sound deadener and carpet will go on top so I won't see it again unless it noticeably fails. On to the convertible restoration!
I did a similar repair using POR 15 in a Ghia battery tray, except I used a sheet of aluminum instead of fiberglass. Yes, it was a "HACK JOB", but 20 years later it still looks perfect. :D