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Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:31 am

Just bought a 1300 s/p engine to get rebuilt to replace our 1200, only halfway through strip down and the heads look real good condition, barrels poor. Can these be fly cut etc or refitted onto 1600/1641 barrels/pistons with a little work.
Is a different cam worth the cost such as eagle 100 over stock I think it needs replacing anyway but again cost.
Have a plan of fuel injection to be fitted once rebuild is done but I believe AA heads have pre cast sensor points in them already are these worth the price tag for this option.
Also has anyone fitted throttle bodies that fit on single port manifold that need little mods from a donor vehicle with any pics.
Lastly what sort of bhp would above rebuilt engine with say a 100 cam and 4 into 1 header be making or if there is another performance extra at reasonable cost I am open to suggestions.
Thanx in advance. :roll:

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:55 am

The 1300 in stock form is a 10 hp upgrade over your 1200. To my knowledge it was the longest lasting stock engine that VW ever put in a Beetle. For major upgrades like you are thinking, new heads, cam, FI there will be little of the original engine left besides the case and crankshaft and the later cases and cranks are a better choice for higher powered engines. They have better oiling mods. Some of the engine tins will need to be changed to do what you want to do as well including the addition of a doghouse fan shroud and offset oil cooler if you do it right.

My suggestion would be to rebuild it as close to stock as you can and enjoy an engine that is only a few HP short of a 1600 SP or sell it to a '66 Beetle owner that wants the correct engine for his restoration project and buy a 1600 DP to modify. This route will be much cheaper to go than all the changes needed for the 1300.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:41 am

The 1300 F code spigots will accept the 1600 barrels and pistons without any machining then you will have a 1600 but then it will need 1600 sp or dp heads as far as cams i would use the stock cam personally i dont care for the e100, the oiling system in the 1300 is not as good as a dual relief case but if it just a daily driver it wont matter.i have made 1600-1641s out of a few 1300 cases for offrd engines they took just as much hammering as a dual relief case without no oiling issues

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:11 am

If you want to add a performance cam i would use cb cheater cam i think off top my head the grind# is 2280

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:23 am

i too am building a 1600 out of a 1300.
well, if you really wanted more power out of you combo your wanting i would save up for duel port heads. the 1300 has much smaller valves than a 1600 sp ot dp so you wont bee as happy with the 1300 heads. i have also known people that have reached detonation with big jugs and small heads simply because they wanted to save a few bucks.

to answer your cam question, i would not go higher than a w110 or a scat c35 camshaft. you dont really need a performance cam for an engine like this considering it looks like your wanting more reliability. i would stay with a stock 1600 cam or a w100. this dosnt mean that you cant invest in high ratio rockers though. the book "how to hotrod you vw engine" has a simple and small chart showing the total lift and duration using the most popular cams with different ration rocker arms.

now, fuel injection is a very useful and great way to hop up your engine in terms of reliability and a little power. there is two ways that i would recommend as far as fi set ups go. if you want a simple bolt on fi set, i would get my hands on a good deal on a German or Mexican fi set. i think the German set ups are more complex and run hotter but the Mexican ones are more expensive. NOW, the best way to go(if you want to some fabrication and learn how to tune a fi engine from scratch) would be to buy a german fi set or make you own intake maifold and then take a miata 1.6 harness and ecu and resto fit the thing on your vw. learning how the fi system works and all the factors that go along with it will be very confusing at first but becomes much easier after watching alot of youtube videos and buying a few books. you will also need at least 7 or so sensors if you want a true modern efi set up. some may reqire drilling and tapping parts of the case for mounting different sensors although this depends on what route you go on. i would recommend first reading about all the necessary sensors that are required, and then go on to making a list of the hardware you need to actually do this. to get the basics down of what it actually looks like on a vw engine i would watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_HvdwgYQs .

good luck

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:41 am

Lastly what sort of bhp would above rebuilt engine with say a 100 cam and 4 into 1 header be making or if there is another performance extra at reasonable cost I am open to suggestions.
Thanx in advance. :roll:[/quote]

FULL FLOW OIL FILTER. THIS IS A necessity on any engine. type 1-3 vw engines never came with these and it was one of Volkswagen stupidest ideas. installing one will save your engine from small pieces or strands of metal that make its way through oil system and ultimately wearing down your bearings, crank, cam, rods, cylinder walls, etc. i forget the exact numbers but i think installing a full flow kit will reduce bearing wear up 30% or something like that. you will also should install a larger oil pump. dont go too big though because too much with these engine with the smaller oil passages will actually make your engine run hotter instead of cooler. i would stick with a 26mm or 28mm flat style oil pump. you will also need a flat style cam to match the pump. the flat cam gears or 3 rivet/bolt cams are also stronger.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:07 am

Every stock engine that i put cb cheater cam in out performed any stock engine i built with a e100 i would use a stock cam or cb cheater cam over a e100 anyday on a stock carb engine

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 am

I’m sure vwspeedshop had a single tb with injector in it that would be a very simple fi conversion ..... someone think I may look at for a single port option on a 1200 I have waiting a rebuild in the future

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:58 am

Thanx for all the input, sadly I have to agree with fitting 1600 twin port heads, when someone I know rebuilt my bay engine he redid all oil ways to make it full flow, I will research on the cam and definately look at the FI videos I have seen a few and also met some people that fitted CB throttle bodies but very nice but expensive.
So shopping list so far is 1600 heads, barrels, pistons, gaskets and seals.

Bug is gonna be a daily so reliabilty is top of list.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:22 pm

Don't forget your machine work :D

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:03 pm

K series rover throttle body, fixing dimensions are 85mm longest and 45mm across but need to confirm these, hoping they will fit on empi dual port headers but need an accurate measure. The gsxr TB is a four pot and hoping for something simple to put onto empi header. More research needed in the meantime with get original case stripped, cleaned and prepped whislt trying to get head round FI mod. Thanx bud

http://sucarb.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/3/...oint_1.jpg

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:34 pm

I like single port engines, and I like the wonderful low RPM performance you get with small-valve single port heads... but 1300 heads do limit high end output. One of the best running Beetles I remember test driving during my years as a mechanic was a bone stock 66 Bug with its 1300SP. So I'm in the camp of keeping it closer to original.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:20 pm

Yes, these engines in stock form are excellent! They rev high in any environment and circumstance and give power all of the time. This is because if there small bore yet longer stroke than the 40hp. John Muir approves of this too.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:19 am

within.1 wrote: Every stock engine that i put cb cheater cam in out performed any stock engine i built with a e100 i would use a stock cam or cb cheater cam over a e100 anyday on a stock carb engine

Same here. And I agree you will be miles ahead if you start fresh with a more modern engine, none of the 1300's tins are even useful for a twin-port anyway. Rebuild the 1300 and enjoy it (great little engine), or put it aside for safe keeping. You'll be smiles ahead with the 1300.

It doesn't make that much sense, when I hear F.I. and "budget" in the same post. You'd be better off with a larger, low-tech engine, in terms of bang-for-the-buck.

But not everything has to make sense, I too am building smaller and higher tech. For the same price, I could have made a 2.3l. Remember fuel injection needs a lot of little upgrades, fuel lines, more watts, etc..

But I do love them "tiddlers"...

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 am

If I was you I would 8nstall the og 77mm pistons, build the engine properly, do all of the normal reliability and cooling upgrades, and then if you want, install your own DIY efi setup. The only reason why im not doing this myself is because I already have rebuild dp heads and 85.5mm pistons. As you can see I'm on a very tight budget and I'm going to need a car for high school.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am

andy198712 wrote: I’m sure vwspeedshop had a single tb with injector in it that would be a very simple fi conversion ..... someone think I may look at for a single port option on a 1200 I have waiting a rebuild in the future

My 40hp EFI project, using a 90's GM TBI Chevy Beretta. Paid $30 shipped on eBay

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:14 pm

FreeBug wrote: within.1 wrote: Every stock engine that i put cb cheater cam in out performed any stock engine i built with a e100 i would use a stock cam or cb cheater cam over a e100 anyday on a stock carb engine

Same here. And I agree you will be miles ahead if you start fresh with a more modern engine, none of the 1300's tins are even useful for a twin-port anyway. Rebuild the 1300 and enjoy it (great little engine), or put it aside for safe keeping. You'll be smiles ahead with the 1300.

It doesn't make that much sense, when I hear F.I. and "budget" in the same post. You'd be better off with a larger, low-tech engine, in terms of bang-for-the-buck.

But not everything has to make sense, I too am building smaller and higher tech. For the same price, I could have made a 2.3l. Remember fuel injection needs a lot of little upgrades, fuel lines, more watts, etc..

But I do love them "tiddlers"...

Agree with FI and budget,but if I go down the route of standard set up I will need, carb, dizzy, manifold, fuel pump etc anyway which is cheaper but still £300-400 and still have issue of cold starting. I am getting engine rebuilt anyway and looks like I need another cam no matter what. Dont want to go down the route of twin carbs as also have them on bus. I was initially hoping to get away from carbs but may have to look at a descent carb set up for now and get engine builder to make engine increase its bhp over standard 1300TP. Want to keep exhaust oem twin tail pipes so cant go 4 into 1 header route.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:12 am

well, im not sure why i didnt say this earlier but you can use gsxr 600 throttle bodies for a fi route. they are about 40 bucks a set off of ebay and are itb's. so you dont have to make your own bungs in a custom intake manifold, instead they are already in tb. then you can buy a miata cpu or whatever cpu you want and then buy an hp tuner cable and credit. now you can start building your tuning your engine from scratch. as far as sensors though, you can use a ford probe v6 crank position sensor. as for the rest of the sensors, you can use anything that will fit the best and be good quality(oem). i would sorce your parts from ebay auctions or your local junkyard. i also recommend GM LS or LS based engine coil packs as for they will last forever and supply all the power you little dub wants.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263320

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:39 am

Chickensoup wrote: well, im not sure why i didnt say this earlier but you can use gsxr 600 throttle bodies for a fi route. they are about 40 bucks a set off of ebay and are itb's. so you dont have to make your own bungs in a custom intake manifold, instead they are already in tb. then you can buy a miata cpu or whatever cpu you want and then buy an hp tuner cable and credit. now you can start building your tuning your engine from scratch. as far as sensors though, you can use a ford probe v6 crank position sensor. as for the rest of the sensors, you can use anything that will fit the best and be good quality(oem). i would sorce your parts from ebay auctions or your local junkyard. i also recommend GM LS or LS based engine coil packs as for they will last forever and supply all the power you little dub wants.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263320

I love the Suzuki throttle body concept that guys are using, but very much overkill for a small single port engine. The gsxr stuff is better suited do a dual port high RPM engine. Multi port on a single port engine is a lot of effort for no gain, IMO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:37 pm

someone please bring back this thread :(