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Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:47 pm

My tank is open to atmosphere. I periodically pour 1/2 bottle of yellow Heet (methanol) to a tank full of unleaded gas to remove any moisture buildup.

Is using Heet necessary to remove any moisture when the gas I'm burning contains ethanol? In other words, will using unleaded gas alone keep my tank free of moisture?

Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:18 pm

Depends how much moisture you're getting in the tank and how quickly you use fuel.

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 am

"Depends how much moisture you're getting in the tank and how quickly you use fuel."

The only moisture is from atmosphere and whatever comes in from the pump. I use the car daily.

Do they do anything special to unleaded ethanol to keep it from absorbing moisture?

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:01 am

I used to have to drain water out of fuel tanks regularly. Have not had to do it since I started using ethanol fuel. Normally none of our vehicles will ever sit for more than 3 or 4 weeks so we don't use any kind of fuel treatment.

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:53 am

goober wrote: "Depends how much moisture you're getting in the tank and how quickly you use fuel."

The only moisture is from atmosphere and whatever comes in from the pump. I use the car daily.

Do they do anything special to unleaded ethanol to keep it from absorbing moisture?

Ever see those cans in the parts store that are a gas additive for absorbing moisture? They are mostly alcohol. Alcohol attracts moisture so that it can mix with the alcohol to be burned and is removed from the tank in that way. Ethanol blended gasoline is what you mostly buy at the gas station. Ethanol not only raises the octane of the fuel but it attracts moisture, grabs it/mixes it and burns too.
Ethanol is Ethyl alcohol.
Side effects; wrong rubber and it eats it, wrong cork gasket, it eats it, wrong type of plastic, it eats it, wrong type of metal line it eats it. Fuel mile age, 2-4 mpg drop compared to gasoline without ethanol blended fuel.

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:23 am

For a car that is used daily, as a result burning through a full tank of fuel at minimum once a month, I see no reason to add any additional alcohol products to ethanol blended fuel. Excessive amounts of ethanol/methanol in the fuel system can be corrosive to aluminum parts as well as damaging to soft parts not rated for such concentrations.

When you say the tank is open to the atmosphere, are you talking about the stock VW setup with a vent line routed out of the trunk and below the level of the tank? Provided your fuel cap seal isn't missing, that setup isn't too bad about moisture intrusion.

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:24 pm

Thanks guys.

So, the ethanol in unleaded fuel will absorb moisture and run it through the system like Heet. Good. Heet is not necessary.

My Bugs fuel setup is complete, functional and stock for '69 and '70. It's the small vent/overflow tube that exposes the tank to atmosphere. In the winter months I try to keep the tank as full as possible most of the time.

Maybe I'll add an extra touch of Heet during those transitional 25 deg f to 35 deg f days to be sure. Don't want a frozen gas line or rotted out tank.

Gotta get my money's worth. :)

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Alcohol laden fuel as mandated in some places may contain a lot of water, in fact may even be fully saturated when it is put into your car at the gas station. Thus there is no way that saturated crummy alcohol laced fuel is going to remove additional moisture from your tank. The Heet product is dry alcohol, and once the container is opened must be used immediately. When put into your tank dry, it will rapidly absorb the moisture in the tank until it too is saturated. Do not depend on the alcohol laced fuel from the gas station to be dry from the station. it may not be dry enough to remove moisture or much moisture from your tank.

tricks to reduce moisture build up include parking in constant temperature garage, and dry enviroment, and keeping air space in tank at minimum, ie always topped off. the alcohol laced fuel in regular use can cause corrosion, and deterioration of fuel parts, avoid it if possible, use Heet from its sealed bottle as needed to remove water, not the alcohol from the mandated alcohol laced gasoline. Use Heet sparingly, just enough to remove the water, over use can deteriorate fuel system parts. one bottle in a ten gallon tank is a much lower concentration that the E90 fuels, so it should not be as harmful.

The difference is Heet from a sealed bottle is dry, the E10* from the gas station maybe already saturated.

Bug On!

* edited to correct to E10 not E90! opps! thanks for pointing that out AlmostheavanWV VW

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:14 pm

"The difference is Heet from a sealed bottle is dry, the E90 from the gas station maybe already saturated."

If you daily drive your Bugs year round in the north as I do, this is important. Not only do I not want to rot my tanks out (I have a few of those already) but when temps drop below freezing I need to be sure my cars will start and run dependably.

A frozen gas line is a pain in the ass I don't need to deal with in the cold. So, if I can't be sure of the water saturation level of the unleaded ethanol from the pump then a judicious use of Heet could be necessary.

So, how often, how much? Right now I conservatively use 1/2 yellow bottle of Heet to a tank full of gas about once a month or so. I also do 1/2 bottle in that rain-to-freeze transition period when atmospheric moisture is high.

I haven't noticed any super unusual deterioration of rubber/gas line but it's hard to tell. Today's rubber/gas line/stuff in general doesn't seem to last as long.

Being a rather cheap bastard, I don't need to wreck what I have. I would also hate to spend the dollars on pricey fuel injector gas line or on other alcohol tolerant parts. Keep doing what I'm doing.....suggestions?

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:56 pm

If you are using a tank of gas a month it isn't going to be a problem, unless you park your car outdoors without a gas cap.

If you really want to make sure you get the freshest gas, buy from the busiest place in town (bonus, these are often the cheapest places too).

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:58 pm

"If you are using a tank of gas a month it isn't going to be a problem, unless you park your car outdoors without a gas cap."

I go through a tank full of gas about every 3-4 days. I use Heet about once a month or so. One car's in the garage for 6 months while I'm driving the other. The garage Bug gets driven for at least 1 hour every month with a couple gallons added to the tank. (I add Heet only once at the beginning) So you could say my daily driver's park outside year round but with gas cap.

My usual gas station is busy. But who knows what their storage tanks contain or what's in the gas their trucks bring them.

Is there a quick easy inexpensive way of telling how much latent moisture is in unleaded gas?

Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:51 am

goober wrote: Is there a quick easy inexpensive way of telling how much latent moisture is in unleaded gas?

If one works in an Analytical Chemistry lab, water content can be determined readily using a Karl Fischer titrator. That's the chemist's response.

Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:16 am

Stop worrying about it. Some people have an axe to grind with ethanol added to fuel. I have been using it for 30 years in extremely humid south Louisiana and have not had one single problem with a fuel system that can be attributed to the ethanol. I use it in all of our cars, RV, generator and lawn equipment. Like I mentioned, since switching to E10 I have not once had to drain a fuel tank to get rid of water. It was once a regular occurence for me here where the humidity is extremely high, we get a lot of rain, and all of our fuel tanks are underground.

My RV sits for a few months at a time ... mowers and dune buggy sit for a couple of months during the winter. No issues.

A full tank of gas will have no room for air, thus nearly impossible for moisture in the air to saturate it. When your tank is empty, fill it as soon as you can and don't worry about it. Just buy fuel from a place that sells a lot of it and gasoline won't sit in the tanks long enough to get moisture in it.

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:54 pm

some folks have problems with tank rust, caused by moisture, regular use of HEET can prevent that. I sure wish I hadnt had to get rid if my original tank, but rust did it in.

As for the mandated alcohol in my gasoline, yeah I hate it, damn corn farmer lobby. it costs more, pollutes more when production is taken into account, harms fuel components, delivers worse miles per gallon, and is responsible for increased food costs. but hey it keeps farmer green jeans rolling in money, and that buys a lot of politicians!

Bug On!

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:05 pm

My tanks are nice shiny steel inside. I must be doing something wrong. :roll:

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:59 am

bluebus86 wrote: Alcohol laden fuel as mandated in some places may contain a lot of water, in fact may even be fully saturated when it is put into your car at the gas station. .........

one bottle in a ten gallon tank is a much lower concentration that the E90 fuels, so it should not be as harmful.

The difference is Heet from a sealed bottle is dry, the E90 from the gas station maybe already saturated.

Bug On!

Blue, just to be clear-----

Are you using E90 in your bug? :shock:
That E90 is meant ONLY for vehicles designed to burn it. Even new "flex fuel" cars can usually only handle E85.
Please please tell me you are not running E90 in your beautiful bug.

If you are referring to the majority of pump gas, that is mandated to have <10% ethanol. "E10" rating technically for regular pump gas.

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:35 am

AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote: bluebus86 wrote: Alcohol laden fuel as mandated in some places may contain a lot of water, in fact may even be fully saturated when it is put into your car at the gas station. .........

one bottle in a ten gallon tank is a much lower concentration that the E90 fuels, so it should not be as harmful.

The difference is Heet from a sealed bottle is dry, the E90 from the gas station maybe already saturated.

Bug On!

Blue, just to be clear-----

Are you using E90 in your bug? :shock:
That E90 is meant ONLY for vehicles designed to burn it. Even new "flex fuel" cars can usually only handle E85.
Please please tell me you are not running E90 in your beautiful bug.

If you are referring to the majority of pump gas, that is mandated to have <10% ethanol. "E10" rating technically for regular pump gas.

error! thanks for pointing that out E 10 not E90 opps!

Bug On!

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:48 am

you can also use a water seperator filter assy...I dont know if a tank out in the open is any different then one that isant.if you know it has some in it and want to run that tank through then yess add some heat to your goober and ride it!!then stick something fresh in it. I should probably add some heat to my 4 wheeler and run the shit outa of it..but my back is just getting ok again and my ankle is afu....wtf I could always use a broken arm( thats about the way this year is going for me....whats next.

Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:52 pm

I have found that my cars run better on rainy days so to replicate that, I simply add 12 ounces of distilled water to the tank with every fill-up.

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:13 pm

iowegian wrote: I have found that my cars run better on rainy days so to replicate that, I simply add 12 ounces of distilled water to the tank with every fill-up.
If you'd use deionised rainwater you'd only need 8 ounces per tank. :wink: