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Fri May 10, 2019 11:16 am

I've read lots of posts about timing and I just want to make sure about something. If I'm understanding this correctly, the mechanical 009 should always be timed at 28-32 degree BTDC at 3000 rpms.
I know that various engines are are timed BTDC and some are ATDC for idle timing, I just want to make sure that this mechanical 009 timing applies to all engine types and years.
Or am I not understanding this correctly?
Thanks

Fri May 10, 2019 11:29 am

car barn wrote: If I'm understanding this correctly, the mechanical 009 should always be timed at 28-32 degree BTDC at 3000 rpms.
Thanks
This is how you do it.

Fri May 10, 2019 12:47 pm

car barn wrote: If I'm understanding this correctly, the mechanical 009 should always be timed at 28-32 degree BTDC at 3000 rpms.
That's what I do as well.

Then for fun, I then see where the static timing would fall. I have two vintage German 009 distributors in my 2 VWs; one falls at 7.5° BTDC and one falls at 10° BTDC.

Fri May 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Most of the German 009's I restore and test on my Sun distributor machine advance a total of 21°. So, 21° + 7.5°= 29ish degrees BTDC full advanced.

However, other parts in the engine wear and can cause further advance. So, doing what everyone here states is the safest way to set the timing. Rev the engine with a timing light pointed at the pulley. When it stops mechanically advancing, set your timing to whatever you're shooting for. Here in AZ, I set my VW's to 28° BTDC due to the hot summer heat.

Fri May 10, 2019 6:31 pm

Bill,

You time mechanical only at full advance. There's no problem setting a 009 to 32* and having the idle advance being 11*.

Fri May 10, 2019 8:49 pm

Glenn wrote: Bill,

You time mechanical only at full advance. There's no problem setting a 009 to 32* and having the idle advance being 11*.

I wasn't referring to idle advance time or where it lands. What I meant was I don't like to run my timing at 32° fully advanced. I prefer 28°.

Fri May 10, 2019 9:01 pm

My real Bosch 009 goes to 29* at 3k
No reason to go full advance. It's not a race car. Stemming back full advance helps it start easier
My 1600 dp with dual carbs, no choke starts almost instantly. It's been sitting for 12 yrs.

Sat May 11, 2019 3:45 am

First off there is no single number, that's why there's a range for 28-32.*

I originally tried 32*, then went to 30* and noticed the engine ran a bit cooler with no lose of performance. I then tried 28* and did notice a drop in performance so I went back to 30*.

Every engine is different and fuel octane also matter. Higher octane needs less advance.

Sat May 11, 2019 6:40 am

Glenn wrote: Higher octane needs less advance.
Are you saying that higher octane fuel burns faster?

Max

Sat May 11, 2019 6:46 am

Max Welton wrote: Glenn wrote: Higher octane needs less advance.
Are you saying that higher octane fuel burns faster?

Max

I thought it 'burned' slower. I use 92 octane with a total advance of 32° with no 'knocking'

Sat May 11, 2019 8:10 am

runamoc wrote: Max Welton wrote: Glenn wrote: Higher octane needs less advance.
Are you saying that higher octane fuel burns faster?

Max

I thought it 'burned' slower. I use 92 octane with a total advance of 32° with no 'knocking'
I could be wrong but all the VW engines that use 91 octane seem to like a little less advance.

Sat May 11, 2019 8:32 am

Hi octane burns slower. Therefore, slower burn a bit further down the cylinders gives a longer push down on the piston.
Lo octane burns fast, shorter push on the piston, also, all that air/fuel mixture burning closer to tdc can lead to engine knock.

Sat May 11, 2019 8:52 am

I know very little about octanes and degrees of 009s, but I must say--------Angus has to have one of the greatest Avatars of all time. :lol:

Sat May 11, 2019 9:55 am

better than yours. :wink:

Sat May 11, 2019 10:22 am

...and this is why there is such a thing as "the 009 stumble." Aside from the lack of advance under load at low RPMs (as compared to a vacuum or combo unit), the off-idle timing varies by a few degrees, making some even more lacking in advance until the revs are high enough.

I had an 009 in my stock 1200 (1385) and 1500 (1600) Bugs over the years, and I didn't like the low rpm performance, and went back to stock. Not trying to open up a well-worn argument, just pointing out the variation in idle timing shown here is another contributor. Add a sloppy Chinese copy instead of an original, and it will be even worse!

Sat May 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Quote: didn't like the low prom performance, and went back to stock.

'They' told me a 2110cc with a C45 cam doesn't make enough vacuum for a stock distributor.

Sat May 11, 2019 5:40 pm

runamoc wrote: 'They' told me a 2110cc with a C45 cam doesn't make enough vacuum for a stock distributor.

"They" also posted about "washing a bad catalytic converter" with lacquer thinner. Someone I know "must've been told" by someone that was wrong with his car and found that "information" on YouTube. All I know is a couple of days later that car caught on fire, which caused his house to catch fire. Really.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:19 pm

I would like to bring this back up, and ask a question. This thread is exactly what I need to do.

I noticed that after driving the bug on the freeway, up a hill, it starts to cackle after driving for a distance at this strain on the engine. Once I let off the gas, it goes away. anyway....I think this is timing related.

After reading this thread, I get the 28-32 degree advance for the 009 distributor. I'm good there. What my question is, is when setting the timing gun, I have the option of setting it for a + value, or - value. My engine is set at 7.5 degree for TDC. So do I set the gun for +7.5 degrees, or do I set it for -7.5 degrees?

I have a 009 distributor WITHOUT vacuum advance

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:51 pm

My car runs way better now that I've set the 009 correctly. I was confused by this part too.
You could hit the "+" button until it says a number between 28-32 degrees on your gun, rev your engine to 3000rpm, and then watch the 0 degree (TDC) timing mark line up with the case. Or, not hit any buttons on your gun, rev your engine, and line up to a mark about 28-32 degrees BTDC on you pulley. The 7.5 degrees is tottaly taken out of the equation.
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:22 pm

You want to rev the engine and set the "all in or the distributor fully mechanically advanced" timing at 3k rpm to 28-32°. Setting the idle at 7.5BTC is to get it close. You could set it to 7.5BTDC at idle, rev it up to 3k and find you're on the money at 28° if that's what you're shooting for. The bottom line is CHECK what the all in timing is. :wink:

There are so many different brands of "009's" these days. Their quality is poor. The new ones made in China should be avoided like the plague. The best are the German Bosch 009's. Followed by made in Brazil and Mexico.