TheSamba.com :: View topic - Novice Engine Rebuild Advice Please. What is my plan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:52 pm

I have the original engine (complete) out of VW and it is need of rebuild (1600)

History: I inherited my VW sun bug from Dad after he passed away. While it was in his possession he didn't keep up the engine maintenance and would drive it every other year for approx 2 months - every now and again. He stored it in a dirt floor barn.

One year he decided to take it out and the engine had set up. Instead of repairing or attempting a fix he had the engine replaced with a new rebuilt engine.

I inherited the car and tracked down the engine which was still at the garage who did the engine replacement.

The engine was seized. One of the jugs has hairline crack

I removed the jugs and nicked case in a couple places (idiot)

The cam spins freely.

.........

So that is where I am at.

Obviously the cases will have to be re-decked (can be done at local machine shops).

What should I do or what should I have done??

Sorry if my question is vague. I am just not sure how to proceed and if i am having the work done...I would prefer to not hand someone a blank check and say "do whatever"

Thanks D74

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:24 pm

A check is definitely easier, but then again it depends on a number of factors.
What kind of budget do you have in mind?
How mechanically inclined are you?
Do you have any knowledge of how these engines go together?
How determined are you?
How much time do you have? Both time in your life and desired completion date.
Do you have all the tools? Engine stand, micrometers, ring compressors, flywheel lock, torque tool, end play tool, clutch alignment tool etc.?
Everything needs to be cleaned and painted too, so you need a space for that and a way to recover the solvents etc. for disposal.

So the question is vague, so here is a vague answer.
Since both engines need to be rebuilt, rebuild them both. Keep the original case and anything salvageable and rebuild that one stock.
Take the second one and either build it as a spare or bore and stroke it and keep the rebuilt stocker as a spare yet original to the car.

No matter how you look at it, you will have to completely disassemble the engines and find all the issues. Only then can you wisely chart your course.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Unless you have the knowledge and all the tools to thoroughly rebuild an engine, chances are it will be less expensive in the long run and it will surely be less stressful to just write a check. However, if you want the challenge to rebuild one then watch all the videos you can find on building one. Even those videos(or books) will not be as valuable as actual experience. Get a price from a reputable engine builder and compare what it will cost you in parts and tools. If you build it there is no guarantee.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:36 pm

Tools often used when rebuilding a VW engine:
Flywheel lock-$9
Oil Pump Puller- $7
Clutch Alignment tool-$5
Distributer Drive Removal-$50
Engine Stand-$100
Oil Filler Nut Tool-$11(much better Deluxe-$20)
Crank Gear puller-$100
Ring Compressor-$7
Crank Pulley Remover-$25
Engine Dolly-$52
Crank Endplay Tool-$26
Flywheel Seal Installing Tool-$32
Case Splitter-$8
Torque Multiplier-$120
36mm Socket-$9
Dial Indicator-$40
Digital Vernier Micrometer-$10
Torque Wrench-$25
Various hand tools-????
Floor jack & jack stands-$100
Air Compressor/Air Gun-???

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:14 pm

So I'm guessing you just want to refresh/rebuild into a running stock motor? If that's the case and you're wanting to do it yourself (or even if not) you'll need to tear the motor down and take it all the way apart. From there either you or the mechanic you choose can measure and inspect what you have, and determine what needs replacing or fixing.

You'll need to measure the crank journals and see if you can use it or need to have it machined or need to replace it.

Pistons and cylinders are relatively cheap but new rings are cheaper if you can get away with having your machinist/mechanic do a fresh hone on the cylinders.

Head's should get rebuilt with new valves since they are old and of unknown mileage etc. Any cracks though and you should probably get new heads.

Case would be the most difficult as you need special tools to measure it. If your mechanic has the tooling to do so have him inspect bearing journals and thrust surfaces. May need to be machined to the next oversize.

Basically go through everything and make sure it's within acceptable wear limits.
Then put it all back together and voila.

For me my first "rebuild" looked like this: I took the motor out of the car and took all accessories like fan shroud, alternator, distributor, carb, etc. off the engine. Then I took it down to my local vw shop (That funny old guy that's been working on VW's for 50 years and sits around in his shop somehow getting work done whilst smoking and BS-ing with customers all day) and had him rebuild it. I think it cost about $1k including new pistons/cylinders and a new head. Now I do most of it myself but send stuff out if I need machine work done.

A few helpful books if you want to do this yourself are John Muir's idiot book, and Tom Wilson's how to rebuild your vw engine.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:19 pm

nogoodwithusernames wrote: For me my first "rebuild" looked like this: I took the motor out of the car and took all accessories like fan shroud, alternator, distributor, carb, etc. off the engine. Then I took it down to my local vw shop (That funny old guy that's been working on VW's for 50 years and sits around in his shop somehow getting work done whilst smoking and BS-ing with customers all day) and had him rebuild it.

This is how I (and many others) started out, and it works well. You get familiar with the motor and everything gets cleaned, painted, torqued, adjusted, rewired, sealed, adjusted, etc., but the precision machining is done by experts. You will learn plenty but not worry about the innards.

Back when drive-up rebuilds cost about $600, my labor (R&R/accessory assembly/cleaning) saved $150 or more of the mechanic's labor. Probably proportional to today's $2K drive-up rebuild cost.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:34 pm

I have rebuilt triumph motorcycle engines (old school) but I have never done a car engine. I am extremely detail oriented and anal about doing things right. My guess is i could do it if i had someone checking my work or showing me what needed to be done.

Can anyone recommend a good VW engine builder located in the north east?? (probably should start a new thread)

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:31 pm

Denver74,
You don't need to start another thread for your build.

If you have successfully built an (Old school) Triumph engine. An ACVW should go together well. That is, if you use the same anal retentive approach to the car engine as you have to the bike engine.

Many here have been guided along the engine build path in these very forums.

Yeah, you do have to find a machine shop that can competently work on your engine case (if needed) and innerds (if needed).

During a engine build you become familiar with how all the parts work in relationship with each other. This knowledge later comes in handy if you have an (hopefully not)issue.

Sure (if you can) seek out the help of that old chain smoking dude with the vw shop. But they are becoming more difficult to find.
There was a shop here recently, that closed up. The owner just aged out of business. He's a real nice guy that specialized in bone stock engines.

Anyway, dive in. There are some very knowledgeable folks here that are willing to help the mechanically gifted. And sometimes the ungifted.

Good Luck.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:17 am

A pushrod engine is a pushrod engine. The VW aircooled is like a Triumph laid flat. :lol:

Let us know how we can help you get this car back on the road. And sorry about your dad.

take care.