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Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:06 am

I'm a complete novice and working with my sons 14,9, and 5 on a 1974 Super Beetle we got off a neighbor. Not great condition but if we can just get it running so they can drive around the field I know they will be thrilled. Just a project to spend some time with my boys. The owner kept the engine that was in it because he had modified it. It has the original tranny and he gave me a motor that was in an old rail buggy he had. The motor will have to be rebuilt but I am curious if it will even match up to the beetle we have without modifications. The motor number is H5317846.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:36 am

Hi and Welcome!

You can use any bug engine in a bug.
Very simple engine mounting, four bolts hold the engine to the transmission (and three mounts hold the transmission to the bug).
They went 12V in 1967, 6V engines have a different flywheel and generator but would still bolt up.

An H5 engine would have been a '68 - '69 1500cc single port
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php
You'll have to pull the heads to tell what it is now, assuming it's been rebuilt at least once prior.

You will need to source all the engine tin for it to run properly, a rail engine is likely missing some.
AwesomePowderCoat has a nice listing - http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/Original_German_Engine_Tin.html
You can buy tin from there, the classifies here, swap meets, ebay, etc.

For a farm bug it wont matter a whole lot, but if you want to drive it on the road the engine compartment needs to be sealed from the hot exhaust air below.

Good luck with it, post some pics of the bug!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:36 am

74Beetle2395 wrote: I'm a complete novice and working with my sons 14,9, and 5 on a 1974 Super Beetle we got off a neighbor.

Neighbor gave me a motor that was in an old rail buggy he had. The motor will have to be rebuilt but I am curious if it will even match up to the beetle we have without modifications. The motor number is H5317846.

That engine was originally a 1500cc single port engine, but if that engine has been rebuilt it's likely 1600cc now due to parts availability. Yes, if rebuilt that would fit into the 1974 Super, but the 1974 Super requires a pressure plate without a center ring. The "H" engine might have a non-doghouse oil cooler and fan shroud, something you might want to upgrade. If that 1974 Super came with an alternator, likely that "H" engine had generator, so that must be addressed as well.

The "H" engines are single relief, and can be OK if rebuilt with case savers; but "H" engines are generally not used for high power engines.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:43 am

Thanks for the quick responses. He did have extra tins and gave me a set of those. He also gave me the fan shroud and everything except the block and heads of the motor that was in the car originally. Just threw it all in the garage. We have rebuilt the brake system and are ready to start working on the motor just didn't want to start on it if we weren't going to be able to use it.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:40 am

As far as the engine case mounting to the transmission bell housing you should have no issue as ALL acvw engines used the same mounting flange. Heck, you could even mount the Porsche 914 T4 engine to your transmission.

As Cusser mentioned, flywheel and clutch compatibility may be an issue. The '74 Beetle should have the later style clutch arrangement (71-later), but the engine may have come w/ a flywheel+clutch from an earlier year (pre-71).
Start with the transmission. Make sure you have a release bearing appropriate for your transmission. The release bearing will dictate the matching pressure plate. Some pressure plates are convertible. Often a pre-71 pressure plate can be converted to work with '71-later release bearings. The clutch disc is pretty much standard for all 200mm clutch/flywheel systems. You do want to get a disc with center springs that absorb some of the shock.

If you know you will need a rebuild, look for a rebuild kit from a good retailer with the replacement components you need. It will likely be a 1600cc (actually 1585cc) with new stock pistons and cylinders re-using many of your OE components. If the engine is not too badly worn you could consider re-honing the cylinders and installing new rings. Price around. You may find a new P&C kit is only slightly more expensive than a hone + set of rings and the time involved.

You didn't mention if your fan shroud is a pre-doghouse style or the later doghouse fan shroud. The two used different width fans and different oil coolers. The later doghouse style has better cooling capacity. If you are building a single-port 1600cc or smaller the older fan shrouds are fine for a stock engine. If you are using dual-port heads then a doghouse fan shroud is preferred.

Cusser also mentioned generators vs. alternators. The '74 would have come from the factory with an alternator. Some of the early alternators had an external voltage regulator (VR). If your engine was from a '68-'69 it may still have the original generator mounted to the engine. These used a different VR installed under the rear seat. Do not attempt to use an alternator VR to manage a generator or a generator VR to manage an alternator. Here is a pic of two types of generator VRs... these should only be used with generators, not alternators:

Later externally regulated alternators had a VR with a pigtail+plug like this with 3 or 4-wires:

Internally regulated alternators had no external VR and should NOT be connected to/thru a VR. You can recognize these because they have only two wires (one large and one small) running to the alternator.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:57 pm

I will post some pictures later. This engine was on a rail buggy uncovered in the weather for some years. It was stuck when I got it. Filled it full of oil and marvel mystery oil worked with it till I finally got it turning. Still doesn't turn smoothly but can be turned easily with a socket and wrench. What are the odds that its salvageable or should I start looking for another one. I don't mind putting a lot of time and effort in it. Again it's just a project for me and my boys to spend some time on. I did notice that the bolt pattern on the oil cooler he gave me doesn't match up to the block.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Odds?
The same chances of a snowflake in Hell. A weathered gift motor w/ a rough history is no more than a core engine for rebuild purposes: the cylinders will be loaded w/ rust.
On the upside, the compatibility issues are minor & all of ya will have fun while learning on it.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:11 pm

74Beetle2395 wrote: I did notice that the bolt pattern on the oil cooler he gave me doesn't match up to the block.
VW upgraded to 10mm ID oil passages on the later dual-relief doghouse oil cooler cases. Earlier cases used 8mm passages. Very early cases used 8mm passages and 6mm(?) studs/bolts to fasten the oil coolers down. This thread discusses which adapter seals/grommets are used when the engine holes and the oil cooler holes are different ID.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538617

The pre-doghouse oil coolers had holes on the bottom and mount directly to the case.
The later dog-house oil coolers have holes on the side used an intermediate adapter to support and connect the cooler to the case. The adapter requires and extra set of seals/grommets to seal the passages between the adapter and the oil cooler.

Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Just went out and looked the oil cooler I have is the doghouse type, the fan shroud is as well. Thanks for the info.