TheSamba.com :: View topic - What will happen if I put Berrymans B12 Chemtool in my fuel tank

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:41 am

This stuff is pretty stout, youtube videos show it eats gloves, eats through styrofoam/ plastic cup bottoms almost immediately, what will happen if I put it in the fuel system of the bug with all its rubber hosing, and the carb with its plastic fuel float, intake valve gaskets, etc?
Berryman's has been around for 100+ years can't believe they would have manufactured a product back then that fuel systems of the day couldn't handle... but I'm not in the market for a new fuel system

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:43 am

Don’t.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:58 am

I'd say " If in doubt LEAVE it out"

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:35 pm

Frodge wrote: Don’t.

Can you elaborate?
AS I said this co has been around for decades making this stuff they had to know it would be OK for fuel systems back then, there was no "warning do not use this on VW bugs" on the can

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:47 pm

Their web site doesn't provide much technical info, other than a vague infographic showing icons of various vehicles.

I've venture to say it won't hurt anything. The question is, does it actually do anything?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:19 pm

sb001 wrote: Frodge wrote: Don’t.

Can you elaborate?
AS I said this co has been around for decades making this stuff they had to know it would be OK for fuel systems back then, there was no "warning do not use this on VW bugs" on the can
I remember reading about this a couple years back. Here is one discussion about rubber. I know you don’t own a boat, but the same applies. What are you trying to accomplish? (Not being a jerk)
https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/forum/current-t...ctid818593

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:29 pm

I think those folks on that site are getting their products mixed up.

TONS of folks (myself included) have used Berryman's CHEM-DIP to clean a carburetor-- because that is PRECISELY what it is supposed to be used for. And yes that stuff is caustic, so the carburetor needs to be disassembled and any rubber/ plastic parts removed (it even says this on the label.) It is much stronger, more concentrated stuff than the B12. I believe it is petroleum-based as well whereas the B12 is not.

B12 Chemtool is a FUEL SYSTEM cleaning agent. It is meant to be diluted in the gasoline. It's not a "carb cleaner" per se like the Chem-Dip. It's meant to dissolve gunk at the bottom of your fuel tank, clean deposits out of the fuel line, carburetor jets, intake, etc.

I'd also say it cleans carbon deposits off pistons, but actually Berryman's makes a combustion chamber cleaner specifically for that. (Although there are a bunch of youTube videos showing B12 doing that work as well.)

So basically, the guys on that site have no clue, and are definitely NOT who I'd use as a reference.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:23 pm

Steve, I poured some Techron into my tank once and watched as some small chunks of carbon came shooting out of my tailpipes. Kind of carboned up from running too rich when I first got my Bug.

Seeing is believing.

Tim

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:28 pm

The Berryman's website has questions and answers. Here are a couple of highlights.

"Our B-12 Chemtool utilizes the strongest solvents available to clean your fuel system. However, when mixed in a ratio of one ounce per gallon (128 oz) of gasoline, the ratio achieves a safe but effective dilution for thoroughly cleaning the system without damage to fuel lines or other solvent sensitive components. You can use any of our fuel additives with confidence in virtually any vehicle, when applied according to label instructions."

Also, for those afraid of ethanol and/or methanol,

"Methanol is actually a permissible constituent in fuel- grade ethanol at low levels. This means formulated gasoline with ethanol contains small amounts of methanol, so automotive component parts are designed with this in mind. Extremely large levels of methanol (like some racing fuel) could be what your manual is referring to. There is no danger in adding B-12 Chemtool into the fuel of an automobile when used as directed. Methanol combined with the other High Energy Solvent in the B-12 Chemtool formula is the basis for the product’s ability to keep the fuel system clean, thereby helping to extend the life of the engine."

This message courtesy of the RTFM department. :lol:

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:51 pm

I have used B12 over the decades with good results.
It is important to follow the usage directions, and not put too much into your tank. I think I always stayed around 1/2 bottle (is it still sold in the steel can?) per full 10gal tank of gas.
If you have soft deposits, B12 will clean them out, but it will not do as much as just removing and cleaning out the carb, and installing new carb kit parts.

I have never seen any problems arise from the proper use of B12 or marvel in our machines, using stock braided fuel lines.

Rob

Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:25 pm

Sea Foam is marketed as an induction system cleaner and people swear up and down that it works. Guess what they used back in the bad old days? Water that’s right water with engine at full operating temperature and moderately high idle you feed it in and blip the throttle. It flashes to steam and cleans the carbon deposits of tops of pistons. Don’t stand behind the tail pipes, word to the wise. 😀

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:56 pm

^^^^
Yep. Used to do that all the time. It works well.
The water doesn’t however flash to steam. It doesn’t have time. If you throw water into a very hot saucepan on the stove it spits and turns into hot water (with only a little steam. The hot water does all the cleaning. Because the valves operate so quickly most of it gets ejected out the tailpipe as hot water👍🏻

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:14 am

I have used SeaFoam with great results.

On MINI Coopers, with the turbo engine (N14), the intake valves get coked and this leads to massive engine running problems. Before BMW approved a walnut blaster, we used SeaFoam, left overnight, to clean the back of the valves.

After the valves were cleaned, the remaining amount, usually half a bottle, was added to the fuel tank and the vehicle was pushed to the back of the lot where it ran for a few hours. SMOKING out the whole area. This stuff is strong.

I have also added it to the engine oil to clean sludge from this same engines with amazing results. Sludge buildup which would seem catastrophic has been removed to the point of no sign of neglect.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:34 am

Did you put a bore scope or visually see that the carbon was removed from the back of the Mini's valves? I have soaked carbon built up parts in seafoam and other additives with little to no results. I know Mini, Audi, and a lot of other manufacturers of direct inject engines have problems with build up of carbon on valves since the gas marketed as valve cleaning does not pass this part of the valve since it is injected directly into the combustion chamber. That is why there is the walnut blasting and other solutions to clean up this carbon build up which limits air flow and limits performance and efficiency.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:47 am

joey1320 wrote:

I have also added it to the engine oil to clean sludge from this same engines with amazing results. Sludge buildup which would seem catastrophic has been removed to the point of no sign of neglect.
You should NEVER use additives to break up sludge & carbon build up in the crank case, because it does exactly that. Now you have all that crap coming off the inside of the engine & it is now in suspension in the oil & this will lead to blocked oil pump pick-up screens & other small cavities & passages.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:52 am

The 1970 VW owners manual (page 53 ) clearly states:

"No additives should be mixed with fuel or lubricating oils and fluids".

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:20 am

TDCTDI wrote: joey1320 wrote:

I have also added it to the engine oil to clean sludge from this same engines with amazing results. Sludge buildup which would seem catastrophic has been removed to the point of no sign of neglect.
You should NEVER use additives to break up sludge & carbon build up in the crank case, because it does exactly that. Now you have all that crap coming off the inside of the engine & it is now in suspension in the oil & this will lead to blocked oil pump pick-up screens & other small cavities & passages.

Someone in the Q/A section on the Berryman's website asked about using B12 in the crankcase. Their response:

Berryman B-12 CHEMTOOL FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER (part #0116) is extremely effective in the crankcase for the removal of gum, sludge, and other deposits IMMEDIATELY before an oil change. Because of the amount of cleaning that the product can do, it is not recommended to add it and then drive normally. This is due to the possibility of overloading the oil with deposits. This is not really a concern while idling and letting the oil temperature come up, but excessive deposits could be problematic once load is put on the engine.

If you would like to try B-12 as an engine flush, simply pour into your cold crankcase approximately 1½-2 oz. of #0116 per quart of oil capacity. For instance, if your vehicle holds 6 quarts of oil, then you would use 9-12 oz. of or about two-thirds to three-quarters of one can. After you’ve added it to your cold oil, start the car and run it at idle 10-15 minutes until the oil is warmed up. Then change the spent oil and replace the oil filter.

This kind of thorough, informative response is why I like Berryman's way more than Seafoam.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:33 am

joey1320 wrote: On MINI Coopers, with the turbo engine (N14), the intake valves get coked and this leads to massive engine running problems....

Off topic - been there, done that. R56. Used a home made walnut blaster and lots of time with a camera probe and a dentist pick. I hate direct injection!

Resume topic :P

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:42 am

Immediate draining of the oil only gets rid of the particulate that is still in suspension (heavier particulate will settle much faster.) & it doesn't clear the screens or passages of particulate that has already been displaced & it doesn't do anything about the buildup that has been loosened that will be dislodged after the oil dump.

The product does exactly as it is designed, but it doesn't account for where all the byproduct ends up.

I have replace hundreds of oil pump pickup screens due to blockage, usually within 100 miles of a customer's visit to a chain lube shops upsell of their oil flush.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:53 am

TDCTDI wrote: Immediate draining of the oil only gets rid of the particulate that is still in suspension (heavier particulate will settle much faster.) & it doesn't clear the screens or passages of particulate that has already been displaced & it doesn't do anything about the buildup that has been loosened that will be dislodged after the oil dump.

The product does exactly as it is designed, but it doesn't account for where all the byproduct ends up.

And here is where the difference between Berryman's and something like Seafoam which is petroleum based comes into play. The Berryman's breaks the carbon deposits down into a much finer substance that has very little chance of getting lodged in oil passageways and instead drains with the oil. Seafoam also breaks down contaminants but leaves them in larger chunks (relatively speaking, the particles are still fairly small.) There is a YouTube video of someone soaking valves in both B12 and Seafoam that shows exactly this result. Also note that the response above specifically states to not put a load on the engine after using the B12, this is to ensure that minimal deposits get stuck in passageways.
As you mentioned above there's already much larger deposits in the oil passageways so I'm not going to hold anything against Berrymans or any other additive to not thoroughly cleanse that. But I'd have zero problem using the Berryman's product as instructed above, as long as I did an oil change immediately after idling the engine (as instructed by Berrymans, but NOT as instructed by Seafoam which I agree is a problem.) I don't know what "oil flush" used by the Jiffy Lubes you are referring to, but I can just about guarantee it wasn't B12.