TheSamba.com :: View topic - Aftermarket Shifters: Are they any better then stock?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:56 pm

At some point I will be replacing the shift rod bushing, and possibly the coupler, on my '78 Super Beetle Convertible. I've driven a number manual transmission vehicles over the years, and this bug is, without a doubt, the worst shifting of all of them. The clutch and tranny seem to be working just fine, it's the shifter and linkage which seem to have a lot of slop, making smooth and accurate shifting very difficult (a problem which seems to be worse when it's near freezing out and the car has been sitting overnight).

I'm sure a lot of the problem will be alleviated by the previously mentioned future repairs, but what I would know is if any of the various aftermarket shifters available actually improve shift quality, or are they simply a window dressing upgrade?

I'm not expecting shift quality like the Mazda Miata I once owned, but it would be nice if it shifted at least as smoothly as my old one-ton truck.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:00 pm

I just put in an old Hurst shifter and it's a whole lot better then the stocker. Shifts are shorter and cleaner, Hurst doesn't make them anymore but empi makes a simular copy. Or you could put a quick shift kit in it for $10.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:05 pm

There are better shifters, but beware of cheap Hurst copies.

I'd suggest a real Hurst or a Berg.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 pm

The Beetle shifter can be simple to complex but functionally it manipulates the shift rod in the tunnel. Better shifters will have a stable pivot point suspended above the center tunnel with very little freeplay. The stock shifter does this with the ball and cup slightly up on the shifter shaft. Move the pivot point higher up and the amount of shifter knob motion needed to move between gears is reduced.

Here is a stock shifter. Note the half-moon bell on the shaft (bottom left) and the sheet metal base (right) with an internal cup for the ball to sit/rotate under. This cup in the base provides the pivot point.

Here you can see the base for an aftermarket shifter. Notice the robust stamped steel frame and large pivot ball. This makes for a smooth and stable pivot point. A shorter shaft also reduces the "throw" for each gear.

Having said all of this, a good quality shifter will STILL feel sloppy if you mate it with a loose shift rod in the tunnel with worn bushings. If the bushings are worn this will have a huge negative impact in shift quality.
I suggest you inspect/fix your shift rod bushing (front) and coupler (rear) and see how much your shifter feel improves. If you still want a tighter, shorter throw shifter you can shop for a replacement. Replacing the shifter is a simple 2-bolt 10min job.

If you remove the shifter and pull up/down/left/right on the head of the rod in the tunnel. If it moves at all, your rod bushing is worn out. The shift rod should NOT move up/down/left/right. When you move between gears the head of the shift rod moves fore/aft/cw/ccw in the tunnel.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:13 pm

A few years back, I replaced the shift rod bushing and coupler on my 1974 Super Beetle. The bushing was new from Wolfgang International, but the coupler was a good, used OEM unit. I also greased the rod, which lubed where the rod goes through the bushing; and I greased all the internals within the shifter housing (anything that touches metal).

The result was a nice, smooth and easy, clean, slick shifting experience—and I was using the stock OEM shifter.

In my opinion, there is no need for a daily driver to have an expensive, short-shifter system. A well-maintained OEM shifter is fine, unless you have short arms, or are racing.

Tim

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote:
In my opinion, there is no need for a daily driver to have an expensive, short-shifter system. A well-maintained OEM shifter is fine, unless you have short arms, or are racing.

Tim

This is true, my '72 w/a good shift rod bushing shifts nicely, but I have to admit I really like the Hurst shifter on my '74. I'm actually considering getting one for the '72, but I have that whole aftermarket shift lock contraption on it and I can't have both. AFAIK.

Go for a real Hurst if you're not cash strapped, you won't be disappointed.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:27 pm

Berg shifter indestructible and used to come with lifetime guarantee. Not cheap made in USA.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:28 pm

I have an original Hurst in my 69. Once you go Hurst, you never go back!

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:12 pm

Wonder if this is Close to a Miata feel?

Just saying drove the hell out of it, talk about
reduction. But never drove a Miata... But maybe
this is all it takes..? RB

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:18 pm

Before spending on a pricey Hurst or Berg, drop in a shifter rebuild kit and a new urethane coupler. See if that gets you what you want.

The VW shifter design is actually pretty darn nice when in good shape. And the rebuild kit is cheap and just an hour or so to put in. After that, if you're still unhappy, that's the time to look at expensive aftermarket stuff.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:09 pm

As DurocShark said, rebuild your stock system first (bushings, coupler, shifter).
If that is not what you want, install a "quick-shift" kit on the shifter (move the pivot for a shorter shift throw).
If that still is not good enough, I recommend a Berg shifter. I've had one in my car for 15+ years and love it.

Just to be clear, even with all the items above, it won't feel like a Miata. The Mazda Miata has a direct-mount shifter, which mounts directly to the transmission and the shifting mechanism actually connects directly to the shift rail inside the transmission. It is as good as it gets for shift feel. 1993-2002 Camaro/Firebird have a similar arraingment and when equipped with a Hurst shifter, are almost as good as a Miata. An air-cooled Volkswagen has a indirect shifter, where the shifter mounts to the tunnel and uses a linkage to connect to the shift rail on the transmission. There is a lot more compliance in an indirect shifter arraignment.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:28 pm

Keith's right about the direct shifter. I had a 78 Subaru DL at one point with a direct shift. Man, that was one beautiful shifter. But the bug really isn't bad if it's in good shape.

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:29 pm

Thanks for the info on the shifters. I was pretty certain the Bug would never shift like Miata, but it’s nice to know I should be able to make some significant improvements fairly easily.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 am

Skip the urethane inside the coupler, too stiff transmits noise and vibration into the shifter and the car. Use rubber OEM

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 am

ashman40 wrote:

What is this picture demonstrating?

While driving a few days ago I happened to notice the W spring had came out of my copper hurst and was laying on my floor mat...

I never really liked the design or how the spring fit... Is this some sort of fix?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:33 am

I'll echo what's been said in that a bad shifting experience can be represented as a concert of problem.

1. Replace the coupler with a new urethane unit.
2. Replace the shift rod bushing
3. Lubricate the rod at the shift rod bushing to ensure that it moves smoothly
4. Lubricate the cut that the shifter ball sits in.
5. Ensure the shifter (whichever you choose) is well maintained, lubricated and tight (with respect to the aftermarket units).
6. Ensure the shifter is properly aligned.

Doing all those things provided you have a solid transaxle, will give you the best possible experience.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the authentic Hurst shifter. Not only do I love the look, but the feel of shifting with it. For me, it's a joy putting it through the gears. Heard great things about the Gene Berg shifters as well. That having been said, nothing wrong with a well maintained stock unit too.

Personal preference comes into play for what you're grabbing onto... but everything after that, all the way to the transaxle is the same. Make sure it's tight and greased and it'll be all good.

CWAVE

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:40 pm

Miklo wrote: ashman40 wrote:

What is this picture demonstrating?
I believe that is the bottom of a Hurst/Empi trigger shifter. I had one in my Beetle. The (missing) spring holds that plate in the down position. In the down position the disc on the shaft/lever contacts the inside of the plate preventing it from going into the reverse gate. To get into reverse the "trigger" is pulled up. This lifts the gate allowing the disc to slide under the plate and the shaft/lever to move into the reverse gate.

On my Empi clone of the Hurst shifter the gate dropped too low and the disc would pass above the plate. I had to add a spacer at the trigger to hold it up just slightly so the disc would contact the inside of the plate.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:01 pm

It's all about personal preference. A well maintained stock shifter feels pretty nice, although the travel is a bit long for my liking. I had a Bugpack copy of a Hurst trigger for decades and loved it. I tried a Berg in my friends car and hated it. I have an Empi T-handle in one buggy and love it and had a SCAT Drag Fast in my 57 that I love and kept for my Ghia, but a lot of people don't like those as they are too quick.

Get your bushings replaced and everything greased up, it will be a lot better. IF you can see if you can get in some other peoples cars with different shifters and try them out.

brad

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Personal preference for me: Stock shifter, but with ye olde quick-shift kit installed (and good shift rod bushing and rear coupler, natch.)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:48 am

I drove the stock shifter with quick shift kit for years, no complaints. Worked fine for my hooptie.

Last summer I changed to the copper Hurst from Devin Van Luchene, best change I've ever made. Solid shifts, great feel, worth every penny.

Just don't buy junk. Get a rebuilt original Hurst, not the Empi copy.