TheSamba.com :: View topic - Why different distributors on Type 3 vs Type 1

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:38 am

I noticed that the part numbers on most of the Type 3 distributors start with 311 instead of 113. I have a Type 3 distributor that looks identical to a Type 1 except for an extra advance plate return spring. I’m curious if anyone knows what’s up with them. And if they can be used okay on a Type 1.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:40 am

Not even all type 1 distributors can be used on all type 1s.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:50 am

It's all about the advance curve, dictated by weights, springs, vacuum can. And the latter has to be matched to a carb, quite different for a Type 1 or 3.
The ideal curve is a factor of power, gearing, load, etc., and these also vary among the models and years.
One can burn up an engine with too much (or even too little) advance, so a random trial swap is never a good idea.
There are links to tables that tell you what was made fore what engine, year, and model. A search should show them up quickly.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:11 pm

Post the numbers on the distributor and we can tell you what carbs it matched.

Let us know what carb your running and we can tell you what distributor would be the best match.

Type 3 distributors are not quite as common as the type 1s. I might have one that is a better match for what you're doing and would be willing to consider a trade depending on what I have on hand. I'm working on a PDSIT project putting type 3 carbs on a type 1 and only have one type 3 distributor. As I'm changing vents and jetting, I'm not sure what distributor is going to be my best bet yet.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:01 pm

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:39 pm

I’m going to run a rebuilt 113 905 205T with rebuilt (by Tim) 30 pict-1 w/Pfc on 1600 single port. So all is good.

I was curious about the Type 3 distributors because I’m a nerd who is fascinated by distributors and carburetors. I’ve been reading a lot about these Bosch distributors and have not seen anything about the major difference in the Type 3 distributors. I have a 311 905 205F for a 66 Type 3. Looks very similar to my 205T. Except for extra spring. And yes it is very nice and I would sell. Just needs reassembled.

I am aware of 30-32 max for any distributor on VW, but what other things would a guy look for if the engine runs well? With all the worn out distributors and various vac cans, etc, etc. it would be nice know that you’re not destroying an engine if you were to experiment, or cobble something together for a $200 beater car.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:53 pm

PM sent

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:40 pm

Some of the type III distributors are identical in every way to the type I's. The only difference being the part number stamping. Some of the type III distributors don't have the number 3 firing position retarded on the points cam. Some as you've stated have different or additional springs. One thing they do have in common are the same vacuum canister shared by both. That's significant since these are vacuum only advance distributors that I am referring too.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:56 pm

ZV/PAU 4 R 4 & 6 (1500N for 1961-2) are nearly identical to the ZV/PAU 4 R 5 used on Beetle and Bus.

ZV/JCU 4 R 3 (1964 1500 S) This is a very unique type III only distributor which shares the points and rotor with other VW Bosch distributors.

111 905 205 N (1966 1500A) is identical to those used on the Beetle and Bus for part of 1965.

111 905 205 M (1964-66 1500N) is identical to those used on the Beetle and Bus for part of 1965.

311 905 205 D,E,F (1965-66) are identical to the 111 905 205 M except that they might not have # 3 retarded. I'm not sure which of these has the dual spring arrngement as my data does not call that out.

315 905 205 and 311 905 205 G (1967 ) are identical to the 113 905 205 K used on Beetle and some buses for 1967.

Beginning with the 1968 model year type III's started receiving distributors that were specific to type III .

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:04 pm

Don't the condenser lead wires need to be a bit longer for type III? I doubt that that had any affect on the distributor part number but Bosch has done stranger things.

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:04 pm

Having the number 3 lobe not being retarded makes sense for a different part number.

There is no way any company would have a different part number for parts which are identical. It costs a ton of money to have additional part numbers. Anyone who works in engineering can tell you that.

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:14 pm

For a variety of reasons Bosch did just this, frequently.

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:26 pm

jadlee wrote: Having the number 3 lobe not being retarded makes sense for a different part number.

There is no way any company would have a different part number for parts which are identical. It costs a ton of money to have additional part numbers. Anyone who works in engineering can tell you that.

Here's 2 Bus distributors. other than the timing spec, they are identical. I've rebuilt both and confirmed. They also list each other as a replacement.

Distributor: VW 022-905-205S, Bosch 0231 170 093
Can Use: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 0231 168 005
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Vacuum Can: 07 060
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8.5-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg; Centrifugal: 8-13deg @ 1600rpm, 20.5-24.5deg @ 3400 rpm

Distributor: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 0231 168 005 > 022-905-205S, 0231 170 093
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Cap: 03 010
Vacuum Can: 07 060
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 850-950 rpm (Man Trans), 900-1000 rpm (Auto Trans) w/strobe, vacuum hose connected
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8.5-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg; Centrifugal: 8-13deg @ 1600 rpm, 20.5-24.5 @ 3400 rpm

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:20 pm

Sometimes the destination dictated what distributor part number was to be applied to a vehicle.

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:24 pm

I could be mistaken, but isn't the drive installed opposite on type-3 distributors?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:24 am

modok wrote: I could be mistaken, but isn't the drive installed opposite on type-3 distributors?
Correct, this is to allow the body to be rotated to allow setting the dwell without the vacuum canister preventing that.

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:48 am

Glenn wrote: modok wrote: I could be mistaken, but isn't the drive installed opposite on type-3 distributors?
Correct, this is to allow the body to be rotated to allow setting the dwell without the vacuum canister preventing that.
It's for setting the timing, not the dwell. But you knew that. :D The vacuum canister will hit the fan housing on a Type 3. It's easy to try different distributors on a Type 1. Bit more of a hassle on a Type 3. :?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:44 pm

modok wrote: I could be mistaken, but isn't the drive installed opposite on type-3 distributors?

The drive gear is installed a tooth rotated, but I didn't know the dog was 180 out.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:30 am

Here's an NOS example of a Type III distributor that was a service department replacement manufactured in May of 1967 for 1961-62 Type III engines:

Bosch # 0 231 139 006 replacing ZV/PAU 4 R 6

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:32 am

I believe the drive dog offset applies to the later SVDA distributors starting in 1968 and on. The single vacuum advance only Type III distributors are set up the same as the Type I's.