TheSamba.com :: View topic - Recommended fuel pump regulator for Holley Red

Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:51 pm

vwracerdave wrote: The Holly red pump is only rated at 97 gallons per hour. It is not too big for a 2387. I've run the red fuel pump & 1-4 PSI regulator on my drag race Dunebuggy for over 20 years without any issues.

The cheap Faucet fuel pumps put out 40 gallons per hour.

50 gallons per minute would be a huge pump for a serious V-8 race engine

I'm with Dave. I put a Red Pump, and the lower pressure Holley reg. dead headed on a friends street car around 07, and it's still working great.

I also agree with John that it would be easier on the pump to have a return line for a constant flow of fuel to not "bind" the pump, but not absolutely necessary.

And for those thinking this may be overkill, how do you know? My friends car that got the Red Pump flat emptied the bowls at 700 ft with a CB/Carter rotory, but it's not always that simple. Another friend went from 12 flat to 11.60's by upgrading his Blue dead headed Holley with a 3/8 line to an Aeromotive A1000 with a 5/8's feed, and a 1/2 inch return. You don't always have to completely run out of fuel to need a bigger pump.

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:16 pm

For drag racing the Holley red and blue is a great choice. The op said sand rail so my recommendation is all I think he needs.

I say overkill based upon my experience of trying to make the Holley red/blue work on the street. They run HOT. When you are sitting in traffic only drawing small amounts of fuel it's fighting itself. Yes, return line would solve this, but why pump gallons of fuel in a circle for no reason? Just size the pump for the engine.

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:00 pm

CB /carter rotary pump with built in filter.#psi constant, quiet and reliable

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:11 am

I'm running the Holly red pump ,Aeromotive A1000 w/ return line feeding a Demon 750 :lol:

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:25 am

The bottom line is what the intended use is for the vehicle. There is a local wooded off-road area where buggy's putt-putt around with the occasional 2nd gear burst to clear a high wall, and in their instance a facet pump could feed a small block. Most I know that have been to Silver Lake sand dunes, which I've heard is tiny compared some of the Westcoast stuff, usually are flat footed doing long runs up dune hills. If you're going to open the engine up where it has a chance of running out of fuel just ONCE, you need to have a fuel system able to keep up. If this requires some sort of loop to take the pressure off the pump when you're idling in 2nd gear on a trail, so be it. If the op's engine is built they way most build a high compression performance 2387, the little Carter rotary isn't going to cut it.

To the op, Aeromotive has a nice 3-15psi bypass regulator, 13204, if you do decide on a looped system.

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:09 am

Lo Cash John wrote: Re-configure the fuel system to be a loop style like an EFI motor.

-Install a "T" fitting on the IN port of the regulator. The "T" needs to be installed so the fuel flow from the pump and into the reg passes through the straight legs of the "T". Make sense??
-Run fuel hose from pump to the "straight" leg of the "T" on the regulator.
-Run fuel hose from the OUT on the regulator back to the fuel tank
-Run fuel hose from the "90* leg" of the "T" to the carbs
-Install pressure gauge on fuel hose that feeds carbs.

In this setup the regulator provides a restriction on the hose back to the tank. As this restriction goes up, the pressure BEFORE the regulator (where the carbs are plumed in) goes UP. As the restriction goes down, the pressure to the carbs goes down. The added benefits are the pump will run much cooler and quieter also.

finally been driving my bug again, speculating about helping my fuel system some now, but wanted to be sure I was clear on this..

I think part of the quoted post was mistaken, so I made a quick and dirty diagram in paint to clear it up..

and yes, i'm aware that my fuel system is complete and total overkill for my application. no i am not interested in replacing it.

Here is what I have currently: (all fittings and hoses are -6 AN and stainless steel braided)

- tank to 65 micron filter
- filter to holley red pump
- pump to petrol king regulator set at 3.5 psi
- hose ran through the heater channel (j-pipes installed) to a bulkhead fitting on the rear firewall
- hose to a AN T-splitter
- hoses to each Weber 40IDF (fuel pressure gauge installed on hose going to drivers side carb)

I agree with previous posters that dropping pressure to 3.5psi is causing necessary stress on the pump, especially since the way I set mine up was to secure them to the firewall outside of the cabin in front of the passengers feet and connect them using a female/female AN fitting. They get good airflow there for some cooling, but I know my pump is essentially trying to push water from a firehose through a pinhole in a brick wall..

Would replacing the female/female with a t fitting and running the hose from the off shoot of the T back to another fitting on the gas tank work to relieve this excess pressure? and would I want the gas to return to the tank from the top of the tank or the bottom?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:29 am

that setup won't build any fuel pressure. The fuel will circulate through the filter and pump and return back to the tank.

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:30 am

HotStreetVw wrote: that setup won't build any fuel pressure. The fuel will circulate through the filter and pump and return back to the tank.

Is there a way then to relieve the strain on the pump or do I need to just buy a regulator with a bypass line built into it?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:36 am

the red pump is internally regulated to 7psi. It doesn't really care that you have dropped the pressure at the regulator. The line from the pump to the regulator is going to be 7psi. The line from the regulator to the carbs is your regulated pressure.

the key is using the correct regulator. This one
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_...rts/12-804

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:41 am

2 to 5 psi. Went thru 2 Holley regulator’s and I have a aeromotive Black fuel pump which is more than a red. I set it to 3 and never looked back

http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13222/10002/-1

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:45 am

HotStreetVw wrote: the red pump is internally regulated to 7psi. It doesn't really care that you have dropped the pressure at the regulator. The line from the pump to the regulator is going to be 7psi. The line from the regulator to the carbs is your regulated pressure.

the key is using the correct regulator. This one
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_...rts/12-804

currently running this one: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Fuel-Pressure-Regulat...ulator.htm

it regulates steadily, I get a solid 3.5psi back in the engine compartment where my gauge is.

I had always been under the impression that a fuel pump gets it's cooling by having fuel flow through it. if you restrict the flow rate, it can't cool as effectively and will wear out sooner than it should.. if a return line is truly not necessary in this application, then I don't want one, i like simple, simple is good.. haha

I was just thinking it might be a good idea

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:47 am

Yeah that's a nice one. I added a return line and used the Aeromotive X1. It has interchangeable guts so it can be swapped from low pressure (carb) to high pressure (injection). A good idea for those future proofing.

I also run a A1000 pump, but control the duty cycle with PWM from the ECU. Lower duty cycle at idle and it comes up to 100% with demand.

ivkings4 wrote: 2 to 5 psi. Went thru 2 Holley regulator’s and I have a aeromotive Black fuel pump which is more than a red. I set it to 3 and never looked back

http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13222/10002/-1

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:49 am

HotStreetVw wrote: that setup won't build any fuel pressure. The fuel will circulate through the filter and pump and return back to the tank.

With small orifice (restriction) on return line to tank it will build pressure....

Dale

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:50 am

The red pump was designed for a dead head application. Maybe for a bit higher consumption (v8 market), but if your not killing pumps, I wouldn't worry about it.

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:51 am

That's what a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR is! So if your going to run a return line, use a return style regulator. And its adjustable, not just a fixed "orifice".

Dale M. wrote: HotStreetVw wrote: that setup won't build any fuel pressure. The fuel will circulate through the filter and pump and return back to the tank.

With small orifice (restriction) on return line to tank it will build pressure....

Dale

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:52 am

HotStreetVw wrote: The red pump was designed for a dead head application. Maybe for a bit higher consumption (v8 market), but if your not killing pumps, I wouldn't worry about it.

alright, not currently killing it that I know of. I just know myself, I have a habit of "it runs well enough" and letting small things turn into big problems.. trying to correct that and be more proactive ya know?

Thanks!

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:55 am

yeah I wouldn't stress over it. If your at any kind of altitude though, you should pull the little rubber plug in the gauge. careful not to spill out the fluid, then reinstall the plug. That will normalized the pressure inside the gauge to atmospheric pressure and the gauge will be more accurate.

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:29 am

HotStreetVw wrote: That's what a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR is! So if your going to run a return line, use a return style regulator. And its adjustable, not just a fixed "orifice".

Dale M. wrote: HotStreetVw wrote: that setup won't build any fuel pressure. The fuel will circulate through the filter and pump and return back to the tank.

With small orifice (restriction) on return line to tank it will build pressure....

Dale

In concept you are correct about bypass regulator

Most people can not seem to grasp that concept...

If I were to say most of the fuel pressure regulator problem are self induced by the implied need to have one...

I run a 2084 in a 1500 (+/-) pound FB buggy with STOCK MECHANICAL PUMP and dual 44 HPMX carbs, and I do not have any perceived fuel pressure problems....Been that way before the HPMX carb were put on car around 2006 when Webers were move to Auto-X car, first generation HPMX carbs too boot..... And engine was built with mechanical pump in 2001 ...

I ran (sold car) FG buggy that had 2180 ( 120 hp at the wheels by chassis dyno) in 1360 pound FG buggy built for auto-X racing for about 6 -7 years and had Carter rotary pump (GP 60504- now its rebranded as a P90091) with a 3.5-4 PSI output and a pair of Weber 44 IDF's (came off street car) and never had a indicated fuel problem...

Yes some will call me stupid, but I don't particularly seem to want to fix something I do not perceive as broke....

I'll let it go at that....

Dale

Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:28 am

I use ne of these mounted just in front of the engine. I use it also as the T fitting to split off to the carbs. I run a 3/8 return line off the regulator to the tank.

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7246.htm

I gave up on trying to get the Holley regulators to work without a bypass line.

brad

Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:39 am

I use a Malpassi petrol king mounted on the firewall. I have the one with no glass bowl though. Supposed to be one of the best you can buy.