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Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:43 pm

I just replaced my old Wagner flasher. I thought it was going out since my indicator light in my speedo would flash maybe twice, then go out. Actual turn signals would still flash fine.

The new flasher (a 4 prong unit) works great. But I'm not getting ground to the bulb housing, so the bulb doesn't flash when installed. If I turn the signal on, and the signal lights flash as usual, but then pull the bulb out of the speedo and touch the housing to grounded metal (see 2nd pic) it flashes perfectly.

A is the bulb receptacle in the speedo

B is a piggy back connector with two wires coming out. Black/green goes to the fuse block, and a solid black goes somewhere else (I didn't trace it) But seems like this piggyback should be going to ground, right?

C is the bulb.

I'm stumped.

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:24 pm

You will need this flasher module 211 953 215C

Take the 31 (ground) or (brown) and connect to 31 on the flasher relay

Take the white/black/green (49a) wire from turn signal switch and connect to a 3 way connector (JBugs sells these). Connect the KBL(dash light), the blue wire to the emergency flasher switch and the 49a together, as the returning ground of the flasher through the 21 watt bulbs is the ground path for the indicator light.

Take the + (white wire) from the emergency switch and connect to the + on the flasher module.

Your "B" connection is actually a 15 circuit connection. Comes off of the fuse panel, fuse #2. Ignition power.

Hope that helps!

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:33 pm

Well I'd just as soon use a 1971-1998 style VW 3 terminal relay. It's a well proven design. When you have a 4 terminal relay, you need to make sure that the extra "Kbl"blinker terminal is really giving an "open/ground/open/ground" signal during operation, if it's set up as "P" terminal it will go "open/hot/open/hot" and that simply does not play with the dash arrow light!!!

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:51 pm

Quote:
B is a piggy back connector with two wires coming out. Black/green goes to the fuse block, and a solid black goes somewhere else (I didn't trace it) But seems like this piggyback should be going to ground, right?

DO NOT connect the piggyback wire to ground. The Black/green going to the fuse block should be supplying +12 volts to the bulbs. The ground for the bulb comes from the wire going to the turn signal flasher.

Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:15 pm

Abouna wrote: The new flasher (a 4 prong unit) works great. But I'm not getting ground to the bulb housing, so the bulb doesn't flash when installed. If I turn the signal on, and the signal lights flash as usual, but then pull the bulb out of the speedo and touch the housing to grounded metal (see 2nd pic) it flashes perfectly.
Is your 4-prong flasher relay designed for use in a VW Beetle, or is it a generic type? What is the make/model# and does it have the proper terminal numbering like the stock one (31, 49, 49a and KBL)?
It sounds like you are using the wrong flasher relay. The flasher relay should NOT be outputting 12v+ on the dedicated indicator terminal. As glutamodo indicated, a proper 4-prong flasher relay should be alternating ground/open on the indicator terminal. The three indicators at the bottom of the speedo share a common 12v+ from that black/green wire. The blue wires that run from the bulb holders run to switched grounds which will turn the lights ON.

Abouna wrote: B is a piggy back connector with two wires coming out. Black/green goes to the fuse block, and a solid black goes somewhere else (I didn't trace it) But seems like this piggyback should be going to ground, right?

Not ground. The very bottom connector on the speedo needs to have ignition switched 12v+ to power all three bulbs.

You might want to try and move the end of the blue/red wire from the KBL terminal on the flasher and piggy back it along with the #49a terminal where the black/green/white wire is. This is the output for the corner lamps. Stock flasher relays (and their aftermarket equivalents) will work when connected this way. When the flasher relay is powering the corner lamps via the 49a terminal the current flowing from the turn indicator lamp in the speedo to this same terminal will stop. The turn indicator lamp will be OFF. When the flasher relay interrupts that power, the turn indicator lamp will ground thru the corner lamps and turn ON. The current flow thru the small 2W bulb will be too small to illuminate the corners. When the flasher relay once again powers the corners the turn indicator lamp will turn OFF. When connected this way the speedo indicator lamp will flash opposite the corer lamps.
Many "generic" flasher relays will have a problem with this arrangement. They don't know how to deal with positive current flowing INTO the OUTPUT terminal of the flasher relay. This is why you must use a flasher relay designed for VW Beetles.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 am

Here's the flasher I'm using: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Flasher-Relay-Blinker-Relay-4-Prong-211953215C-p/211-953-215c.htm

I'm going to look at this closer today and report back.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:41 am

The reason I even brought up so-called "proper" 4-terminal flashers not working right, is because I've SEEN them not be right. I don't think I've seen that one in particular though so I can't comment on it. I'm perfectly fine with using a 3-terminal flasher myself.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:47 am

Abouna wrote: Here's the flasher I'm using: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Flasher-Relay-Blinker-Relay-4-Prong-211953215C-p/211-953-215c.htm

I'm going to look at this closer today and report back.

That's the flasher needed. Like the one in the picture I posted. Get that and installed as described. Easiest way, and it works!

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:11 pm

Wire your flasher relay as follows:
49 (+) = (INPUT) white wire from (+) terminal of E-Flasher switch

31 = brown ground wire (-)

49a = (OUTPUT) black/green/white wire (sometimes it is a blue wire) to E-Flasher switch 49a terminal AND to common black/green/white wire in turn signal switch

KBL = blue/red wire from speedo turn indicator bulb
BEFORE you test it, remove the turn indicator bulb from the bulb holder in the speedo and reinstall the empty holder into the speedo. This is just to simplify the circuit and see if the switches and wires all work.

Test:
Turn the ignition switch ON.

With the E-Flasher switch OFF, test both the left turn and right turn positions of the turn signal lever. The left and right side corner lamps should flash as expected.

Center the turn signal lever and with the ignition still ON, turn ON the E-Flasher switch. All four corner lamps should flash at the same speed/rate as the turn signals were. If there is a working bulb in your E-Flasher switch it should also flash.
While all four corner lights are flashing, move the turn signal lever to both the left and right turn positions. There should be no change to the flashing lights.

With the E-Flasher switch still ON, turn OFF the ignition switch. The four corner lamps should continue to flash.

Turn OFF the E-Flasher switch and all four corner lamps should stop flashing.
Reinstall the 2W turn indicator lamp into the speedo. This bulb is wired to the KBL terminal of the flasher relay. Rerun the above tests. The turn indicator lamp should flash in conjunction with the corner lights.

If the test fails, move the blue/red wire from the KBL terminal to the 49a terminal along with the wires that run to the E-Flasher and turn signal switches. Rerun the test. The only thing that might be different here is that when the E-Flasher switch is OFF and using the turn signal switch... the speedo indicator bulb will flash OPPOSITE the corner lamps. When the indicator lamp is ON the corner lamps will be OFF.

If your flasher relay works fine with the turn indicator bulb disconnected, but fails to work when it is connected... usually this means the flasher relay is not compatible with the way the indicator lamp functions.

Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:27 pm

VW_Jimbo wrote:

You will need this flasher module 211 953 215C

Take the 31 (ground) or (brown) and connect to 31 on the flasher relay

Take the white/black/green (49a) wire from turn signal switch and connect to a 3 way connector (JBugs sells these). Connect the KBL(dash light), the blue wire to the emergency flasher switch and the 49a together, as the returning ground of the flasher through the 21 watt bulbs is the ground path for the indicator light.

Take the + (white wire) from the emergency switch and connect to the + on the flasher module.

Your "B" connection is actually a 15 circuit connection. Comes off of the fuse panel, fuse #2. Ignition power.

Hope that helps!

Thanks Jim. Got my three way connector and got it wired up today following your instructions. Works perfectly now. Funny how that orange glow of the indicator, even with its cracked lens, can be so satisfying to watch flash.

Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:44 pm

You are welcome. Glad I could share my info. I was telling KKiley that exact thing the other day. There is sooooo much info about these cars in my head from wrenching on them for 10 plus year as a professional mechanic. I need to get it out of my head and into this type of community. Because once I (or anyone of us) is gone, so is that knowledge. Honestly, I would work on between 5 to 6 of these cars a day, plus when it got slow, I would rebuild longblocks, transmissions, distributors, carburetors and alternators. I have seen alot and repaired alot!