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Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:41 pm

I'm thinking about replacing my freeway flyer transmission with a stock one. The car is a 1965 bug with a 1500cc engine (according to the PO) that has been converted to 12v. PO installed a freeway flyer transmission in 2012. I now run the car in Colorado around 6,000 feet with forays into the high country. I've noticed that when cruising in 4th gear with any kind of slight uphill, I cannot maintain speed. If the hill is any length I end up downshifting into 3rd to make it up, and into 2nd for the really steep hills. Since the car is essentially stock and mostly OG, I'm planning to build up a 1200cc motor like the original (topic for another thread). I've researched the heck out it here and believe that a stock tranny would work much better. I'm interested to know your thoughts.

I have an opportunity to swap the freeway flyer for a stock tranny with another owner. It would be a straight trade so the only cost would be the time necessary for us both to do the swap ourselves. Are there any checks or tests I can do with the stock tranny to make sure it is in good condition? Any red flags to look for? I believe I will have to grind the bell housing for the 12v flywheel.

Figured I would ask all the experts here to make sure I know what I'm getting into. Also, if I am going to do the switch, what else should I inspect or replace during the swap since I will have the engine and tranny out?

Thanks guys!

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Is the transmission you'll be trading for a 4.37 R/P or 4.12R/P ?
4.37 would be correct for 65 with a 1200.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:13 pm

You also need to find out what your trans is. Originally, a freeway flyer was a 3.88 trans with a higher .82 4th. Then the term was completely over used to mean anyone of the 3.88/.82, 3.88/.93, or 4.12/.82 combos. If you have the 4.12/.82 combo, swapping to a stock 4.12 with an .89 4th will make little difference. On the other hand, going from the 3.88/.82 combo to a 4.37/.89 will be huge. I would search out a stock geared 4.37 r&p trans for your 1200.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:48 pm

Id trade you my stock 1963 transmission for your longer geared transmission.

I do mainly flat freeways around here, and am limited to 60-65mph at the upper most limit. Id love to have my engine at a lower RPM at those speeds.....

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:23 pm

Zundfolge1432 wrote: Is the transmission you'll be trading for a 4.37 R/P or 4.12R/P ?
4.37 would be correct for 65 with a 1200.

4.37 would be correct for a 65 type 113 deluxe 40hp 1200,
a 4.43 would be correct for a 1965 111, 112, 115 & 116 "A" sedan 1200 36hp
BTW both trans cases are identical tunnel type and fully synchronized.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:12 pm

Helfen wrote: Zundfolge1432 wrote: Is the transmission you'll be trading for a 4.37 R/P or 4.12R/P ?
4.37 would be correct for 65 with a 1200.

4.37 would be correct for a 65 type 113 deluxe 40hp 1200,
a 4.43 would be correct for a 1965 111, 112, 115 & 116 "A" sedan 1200 36hp
BTW both trans cases are identical tunnel type and fully synchronized.

I've never seen a 4.43 r&p that would accept tunnel type gears, only splitcase gears. U.S. spec Beetles would have had a 4.37.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:10 pm

[email protected] wrote: Helfen wrote: Zundfolge1432 wrote: Is the transmission you'll be trading for a 4.37 R/P or 4.12R/P ?
4.37 would be correct for 65 with a 1200.

4.37 would be correct for a 65 type 113 deluxe 40hp 1200,
a 4.43 would be correct for a 1965 111, 112, 115 & 116 "A" sedan 1200 36hp
BTW both trans cases are identical tunnel type and fully synchronized.

I've never seen a 4.43 r&p that would accept tunnel type gears, only splitcase gears. U.S. spec Beetles would have had a 4.37.

When VW went to the fully synchronized box tunnel type transaxle, the standard model followed as well. The standard model to 1964 and the 1965 "A" sedan ( a new name for a standard) had the 4.43 R&P and the 36 hp engines were also fresh air heater boxes with about a 7/8 inch on the heads to make them the same length as the 40hp head so they would fit the heat exchangers and the 40hp exhaust.
36hp and earlier engines and cars were designed for the 4.43 R&P. I bought my 65 111 in 68 and rebuilt the trans in 1972 when I was a unit repair ( Engine and transaxle mechanic) mechanic at a VW dealer. I can assure you it's a 4.43 with a 3.60 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.25 3rd, 0.80 4th.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:10 pm

All of the owners manuals past 61 in the tech section indicate a 4.37. There's a 1965 1200A manual in the 1966 section, and it lists a 4.37. Do you have any literature indicating a 4.43 past 61? Not trying to start a pissing match, but if a 4.43 r&p exists that can be used with 61-later gear sets, I have a use for it.

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:33 pm

[email protected] wrote: All of the owners manuals past 61 in the tech section indicate a 4.37. There's a 1965 1200A manual in the 1966 section, and it lists a 4.37. Do you have any literature indicating a 4.43 past 61? Not trying to start a pissing match, but if a 4.43 r&p exists that can be used with 61-later gear sets, I have a use for it.

That's because a 1200A is a 40 hp. A 1200"A" sedan is a 36hp

Here is one that will flip you. A 1965 1200 Canadian Custom ( still a Type 111) comes with a 40hp
A European 1965 1200 Custom ( still a Type 111 "A" Sedan) is a 36hp

Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:45 am

Car is a 1965 115 083 *** that was built in September 1964. Body and pan are matching numbers. Current engine is H5 289 *** that looks to be manufactured in 1968. PO says that it is 1500cc. So now I'm not sure if the original engine was 36hp or 40 hp.

Regarding transmission, how would I determine what the current R/P and 4th gear are?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:09 am

shanks wrote: Car is a 1965 115 083 *** that was built in September 1964. Body and pan are matching numbers. Current engine is H5 289 *** that looks to be manufactured in 1968. PO says that it is 1500cc. So now I'm not sure if the original engine was 36hp or 40 hp.

Regarding transmission, how would I determine what the current R/P and 4th gear are?

If the car is a 113, 114, 117,118 it will be a 40hp

It's very hard to tell a 4.43 from a 4.375 by spinning a jacked up wheel. You can tell with a tachometer though running in 4th gear. My 65 111 and it's 36hp with a 4.43 at 70mph is around 3,800+ rpm. It really likes cruising 100 KPH best though.

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:22 pm

VW used a 2nd gear close to 2:1. You could raise the wheels off the ground, and by turning the engine over by hand, count how many crank revolutions make the wheels rotate once. Just keep an eye on both wheels to make sure they are spinning the same direction. A 4.12 would take 8.5 crank revolutions, and a 3.88 would take 8. That would give you the ring & pinion. It's hard to tell the 4th gear, but the freeway flyer gimmic term usually ment an .82 with either.

Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:02 pm

Ok the OP is from Colorado I think. I know where Canada is and he's a long way from there. I've never heard of Vulcania (your location) but I am all impressed with the obscure info on 4.33 in the U.S. 99.9% of the 64 or 65 beetles are 4.37 :D

Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:34 pm

Helfen wrote: When VW went to the fully synchronized box tunnel type transaxle, the standard model followed as well. The standard model to 1964 and the 1965 "A" sedan ( a new name for a standard) had the 4.43 R&P .....
36hp and earlier engines and cars were designed for the 4.43 R&P. I bought my 65 111 in 68 and rebuilt the trans in 1972 when I was a unit repair ( Engine and transaxle mechanic) mechanic at a VW dealer. I can assure you it's a 4.43 with a 3.60 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.25 3rd, 0.80 4th.
Your memory is failing. A 4.43 R&P doesn't exist for a tunnel type trans (61 and later). Those gear ratios you quote are for split case gearboxes. That's what you had in your 65.
Besides that, it makes no sense whatsoever for VW to make a 4.43 R&P when the common 4.37 is only 1.25% different.

Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:37 am

Shanks,

I am not an engine or transaxle expert by any means, but the owner of our local VW shop certainly is. He's been building both for a very long time. And has a history of drag racing that is very impressive.

When I discussed my engine / transaxle build with him, I told him I wanted the best compromise of power and economy. And also that I wanted a freeway flyer. Beside the point he really wanted to build me a fire-breathing, temperamental engine, he told me that at a minimum, a 1641 is recommended to pull 4th in a freeway flyer. He also said, he does not like to build them because the average driver does not understand what they have, how the engine cools, etc. and often ends up shortening the life of the engine as a result.

I've just gotten mine on the road, for real, this last week.....after 7 long years of the project. A freeway flyer is definitely different.....I'll say that. There really is an grey area between 3rd and 4th that is somewhat difficult to manage, i.e., rpms a little high in 3rd and too low for 4th for a given speed. But I'll also say, I'm very impressed with the highway performance. In Texas, we have a lot of long highway stretches even in our normal commutes. I can hit 70 with little effort and hang there with a very reasonable rpm. I'm digging it.

JAM

Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:10 pm

Bruce wrote: Helfen wrote: When VW went to the fully synchronized box tunnel type transaxle, the standard model followed as well. The standard model to 1964 and the 1965 "A" sedan ( a new name for a standard) had the 4.43 R&P .....
36hp and earlier engines and cars were designed for the 4.43 R&P. I bought my 65 111 in 68 and rebuilt the trans in 1972 when I was a unit repair ( Engine and transaxle mechanic) mechanic at a VW dealer. I can assure you it's a 4.43 with a 3.60 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.25 3rd, 0.80 4th.
Your memory is failing. A 4.43 R&P doesn't exist for a tunnel type trans (61 and later). Those gear ratios you quote are for split case gearboxes. That's what you had in your 65.
Besides that, it makes no sense whatsoever for VW to make a 4.43 R&P when the common 4.37 is only 1.25% different.

Sorry no memory fade. VW always used a 4.43 on 36 hp engines. The last 36 hp VW was built in 1965. VW went to the tunnel type in 61 and the standard 36hp engine cars also got this trans. Having rebuilt mine, I can confirm this.

Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:20 pm

Hey guys, some info for you. I checked the R&P today by jacking one wheel off the ground and turning the engine until the wheel went one full revolution. I got 4.25 engine revs for 1 wheel rev. So it looks like I have a 4.12 R&P if I have read everything correctly.

I also found the numbers on the tranny.
Cast into housing:
33
113.301.103
C
VW emblem

Stamped into housing:
9179760

Does anyone know the origin of this transmission based on the numbers?

I have an opportunity to get a different transmission. Is there any way to test it to see if it is in good condition before I trade mine for it?

It looks like I need to have a 4.37 R&P.

I also noticed that the forward rubber mount appears to be cracked. I'll post some photos later.

Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:12 pm

If your trans has been "built" with a higher 4th gear, it could have any r&p in it, so the serial number may not mean much anymore. You need both wheels off the ground, with both of them turning in the same direction. By only spinning one, you are also using the 11/17 teeth gear ratio of the differential gears. The end goal it to count the revolutions of the differential housing itself.

About the only thing you can do to check the other trans is to shift it through the gears, and spin over the input shaft. If it spins over smoothly, you're half way there.

Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Helfen wrote: Sorry no memory fade. VW always used a 4.43 on 36 hp engines. The last 36 hp VW was built in 1965. VW went to the tunnel type in 61 and the standard 36hp engine cars also got this trans. Having rebuilt mine, I can confirm this.
What was 4th gear again? The point being that the 36 horse engine pulls taller gearing (lower engine rpm at freeway speeds) than a 40 horse engine. 4.375 * 0.89 = 3.89 while 4.43 * 0.82 = 3.63. A 40 horse box in front of a 36 horse does wake it up, but I don't take mine over 65 mph (rpm equal to going 70 with the stock box.)

Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:29 am

As promised earlier here is a photo of the front transmission mount. It appears to be cracked rather badly on the right side. The left side does not look as bad. I supposed replacement is warranted when I replace the transmission.