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Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Just curious what the pros and cons are on the Empi HPMX carbs. I want to go to upgrade to dual carbs but Webers are expensive. Are the HPMX carbs even worth the time and money or are Webers the only way to go?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:23 pm

oh boy here we go

Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:31 pm

Ha Ha! I thought this might stir things up. I just want to know if they are worth the money.

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Any dual IDF setup will be pricey due to cost of jets, good manifolds, bases/filters/linkage. Initial purchase price may or may not cover all your needs. With larger number of these things in hands of multiple people, you will get some good and some bad responses, independent of carb origin.

Stan

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:35 pm

stan_tichomirov wrote: Any dual IDF setup will be pricey due to cost of jets, good manifolds, bases/filters/linkage. Initial purchase price may or may not cover all your needs. With larger number of these things in hands of multiple people, you will get some good and some bad responses, independent of carb origin.

Stan

The difference between Webers and HPMX for a dual carb kit is about 300 dollars

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:44 pm

Stan for the win!

Most of the cost is in the set up, not the carbs. Once they are set up... I'm not sure if there's a huge functional difference both Empi and Weber's are proven to work well.

The major difference is with the Hpmx, and the fact that there is no provision for chokes, which isn't usually used in the vw world.

The 40 hpmx is a 44 IDF copy with smaller throttle plate and a married idle circuit. Empi made one casting and machined accordingly.

Does it make a difference? I'm not sure, it's probably not a big one if so. The really only noticible difference is that the 40 HPMX uses a different aux vent than the 40 IDF. So if you nerd an aux aux vent then we'll you just buy the 44 IDF style.

I'd love to see some put a motor on the dino with an afr read out, tune the carbs correctly, then swap the brands of carbs and use the same jets and actually compare. That might show the difference. But it might also show the differences between two different sets if Webers. Because almost all new vw engines are handcrafted snowflakes, it would be an utterly pointless exercise.

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:51 pm

I am running early HPMX 44's and love them, not had any problems... Would do it again ...

Dale

Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:11 pm

My experience with my friends hpmx carbs, they do work
well after I fixed the jetting, the shaft bearings are a little loose in
the housing, only has 3000 miles on these new carbs.
Ran into this problem where this plug, as you can see in
the pic, it was leaking fuel, pulled it out and fixed it permanently.

Will be fixing the other one that is leaking in the other carb this weekend.

Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:33 pm

vwkirb wrote: Stan for the win!

Most of the cost is in the set up, not the carbs. Once they are set up... I'm not sure if there's a huge functional difference both Empi and Weber's are proven to work well.

The major difference is with the Hpmx, and the fact that there is no provision for chokes, which isn't usually used in the vw world.

The 40 hpmx is a 44 IDF copy with smaller throttle plate and a married idle circuit. Empi made one casting and machined accordingly.

Does it make a difference? I'm not sure, it's probably not a big one if so. The really only noticible difference is that the 40 HPMX uses a different aux vent than the 40 IDF. So if you nerd an aux aux vent then we'll you just buy the 44 IDF style.

I'd love to see some put a motor on the dino with an afr read out, tune the carbs correctly, then swap the brands of carbs and use the same jets and actually compare. That might show the difference. But it might also show the differences between two different sets if Webers. Because almost all new vw engines are handcrafted snowflakes, it would be an utterly pointless exercise.

Ask and you shall receive....kind of. It might be a little bias.
https://youtu.be/WP3fOWaaQy4

Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:50 pm

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been more responses.

The HPMX's have 3 generations...each version has gotten better from what I have read. EMPI put out you tube videos showing dyno comparisons between them and Webers...the HPMX's put out more HP. Do a search for the videos

Do a search in this forum as well...there have been several threads already comparing the two.

What's your budget and goal...base your decision on that

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:04 pm

Oh I've seen that video. I don't think I realized they moved the jets over though. Way cool.

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:09 pm

Video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WP3fOWaaQy4

Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:47 pm

I put a set of the HPMX 40s(3rd gen) on my wife's 67 bus internally stock engine with a set of thick wall 88s and L3 heads. Payed less than $600 with deluxe linkage upgrade. They have been perfect so far. Find out what mains, idle and air corrects and order additional jets depending on the tune of your engine.

Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:16 pm

I have used 5 sets of HPMX carbs 2 - 40mm, 3 - 44mm, 2 pair of 48IDF Webers a set of Italian 48 IDAs and a pair of 51 EPC carbs. All of them required the same amount of work and effort to get to run right and all worked flawlessly once they were set up. For me, I have no problem running HPMX or EPC carbs considering I pay approx. $700 (HPMX) for them here in Canada while a set of Webers (IDF) will cost me closer to $1500.

brad

Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:00 am

The only problem I've had with my HPMX 40's is the fuel inlet filters. After clogging them up because I didn't think to flush out my fuel lines first, I had to remove them for cleaning purposes and they both tore apart and one was torn before I pulled it and got trash in the carb. I bought the weber replacement filters and have had no problems since. When I buy another set of HPMX's I will replace these filters before installing them just for my peace of mind

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:50 am

Hello. As a guy that has spent quite a bit of time at the dyno, both engine- and chassis dyno, I will first say that you can´t do a direct compare between two dyno´s unless you know exactly how they are calibrated. When that is out I have a few observations:
The 1776. W120 cam, stock rebuilt heads, 1 5/8" header (!) Not a very good match of parts, but even then, 90 hp & 101 lbs torque is not much.
Then next. They do even say it in the video, that the 40 HPMX share the same body as the 44. That means that the comparison between the 40 IDF71 and the HPMX is apples to oranges, because the HPMX is NOT a direct comparison to the IDF70, but more the IDF 68/69. That part alone explains the slightly higher hp output on the 40 HPMX.

With the 2010. There is no direct explanation to 2 hp difference apart from weather, temps or jetting.
On both accounts you cannot expect that one set of jet stacks perform and mix the same in two sets of carbs, ESPECIALLY not in a set of Webers, IDF or HPMX.

This promotion video also DOES NOT tell/show/prove how they perform on the street in every day driving. WOT performance and part load lumping around town are two vastly different things.

With this critisism I will say though that the Empi IDF´s are of the better on the copy market. In fact i think they are the next best solution.

BUT! I am REALLY looking forward to see hear and try their new EMPI D carb. If they have done their homework that is most likely going to be a favourite of mine........ Can´t believe I sad that about an E*** product :roll: Oh well, time will tell.

T

Mon May 01, 2017 6:41 pm

Alstrup wrote: Hello. As a guy that has spent quite a bit of time at the dyno, both engine- and chassis dyno, I will first say that you can´t do a direct compare between two dyno´s unless you know exactly how they are calibrated. When that is out I have a few observations:
The 1776. W120 cam, stock rebuilt heads, 1 5/8" header (!) Not a very good match of parts, but even then, 90 hp & 101 lbs torque is not much.
Then next. They do even say it in the video, that the 40 HPMX share the same body as the 44. That means that the comparison between the 40 IDF71 and the HPMX is apples to oranges, because the HPMX is NOT a direct comparison to the IDF70, but more the IDF 68/69. That part alone explains the slightly higher hp output on the 40 HPMX.

With the 2010. There is no direct explanation to 2 hp difference apart from weather, temps or jetting.
On both accounts you cannot expect that one set of jet stacks perform and mix the same in two sets of carbs, ESPECIALLY not in a set of Webers, IDF or HPMX.

This promotion video also DOES NOT tell/show/prove how they perform on the street in every day driving. WOT performance and part load lumping around town are two vastly different things.

With this critisism I will say though that the Empi IDF´s are of the better on the copy market. In fact i think they are the next best solution.

BUT! I am REALLY looking forward to see hear and try their new EMPI D carb. If they have done their homework that is most likely going to be a favourite of mine........ Can´t believe I sad that about an E*** product :roll: Oh well, time will tell.

T

What's all the hype with the Empi D carbs? What are the differences?

Mon May 01, 2017 7:04 pm

jleavitt73 wrote: Alstrup wrote: Hello. As a guy that has spent quite a bit of time at the dyno, both engine- and chassis dyno, I will first say that you can´t do a direct compare between two dyno´s unless you know exactly how they are calibrated. When that is out I have a few observations:
The 1776. W120 cam, stock rebuilt heads, 1 5/8" header (!) Not a very good match of parts, but even then, 90 hp & 101 lbs torque is not much.
Then next. They do even say it in the video, that the 40 HPMX share the same body as the 44. That means that the comparison between the 40 IDF71 and the HPMX is apples to oranges, because the HPMX is NOT a direct comparison to the IDF70, but more the IDF 68/69. That part alone explains the slightly higher hp output on the 40 HPMX.

With the 2010. There is no direct explanation to 2 hp difference apart from weather, temps or jetting.
On both accounts you cannot expect that one set of jet stacks perform and mix the same in two sets of carbs, ESPECIALLY not in a set of Webers, IDF or HPMX.

This promotion video also DOES NOT tell/show/prove how they perform on the street in every day driving. WOT performance and part load lumping around town are two vastly different things.

With this critisism I will say though that the Empi IDF´s are of the better on the copy market. In fact i think they are the next best solution.

BUT! I am REALLY looking forward to see hear and try their new EMPI D carb. If they have done their homework that is most likely going to be a favourite of mine........ Can´t believe I sad that about an E*** product :roll: Oh well, time will tell.

T

What's all the hype with the Empi D carbs? What are the differences?

Supposedly Chinese/EMPI reproduction of Dellortos...

Dale