TheSamba.com :: View topic - Insulation & Heat Loss: Pop-Top Tent, Roof, Windows, Rear Hatch

Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:03 am

Hey guys. I recently completed a few blog posts regarding insulating my Westy. I thought you'd all be interested:

VW Vanagon Westfalia Pop-Top – Reducing Heat Loss – Part 1 – Roof
http://vwblvd.com/?p=1662

VW Vanagon Westfalia Pop-Top – Reducing Heat Loss – Part 2 – Tent Sidewalls
http://vwblvd.com/?p=1723

VW Vanagon Westfalia Pop-Top – Reducing Heat Loss – Part 3 – Window Glass
http://vwblvd.com/?p=1763

VW Vanagon Westfalia Pop-Top – Reducing Heat Loss – Part 4 – Rear Hatch
http://vwblvd.com/?p=1779

Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:33 am

Very interesting, thanks for posting the videos!

Could you please share details on the thermal camera and/or measurement instruments that you're using to measure the temperature? I'd definitely like to perform a similar check on my van to improve thermal insulation (skiing season has been very cold here lately)

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:19 pm

pnwkayaker wrote: Very interesting, thanks for posting the videos!

Could you please share details on the thermal camera and/or measurement instruments that you're using to measure the temperature? I'd definitely like to perform a similar check on my van to improve thermal insulation (skiing season has been very cold here lately)

Thanks pnwkayaker. I'm using a Flir thermal imaging camera that connects to my iPhone.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:43 pm

wolfywho wrote: Hey guys. I recently completed a few blog posts regarding insulating my Westy. I thought you'd all be interested:

Am interested! WAY COOOL!!!!!!

curious to see just relectix on the inside of the tent

Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:07 pm

vanis13 wrote:

Am interested! WAY COOOL!!!!!!

curious to see just relectix on the inside of the tent

Excellent. Thanks vanis. That's on my to-do list! :D

Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:22 pm

Good set of posts! As one of the readers said, why not just leave the top un-popped when it's really cold? No heat loss through all that canvas, and less cubic feet of interior space to keep heated? If you're tall, and you want to cook, maybe pop it while cooking, then drop it before bed.
Another- you mention several times snapping the insulation in, esp up in the tented upper level. What do the snaps snap onto? Did you put mating halfs of them on the inside of the fiberglass top? How- by drilling through,or are they glued on (what kind), or what?
I looked at thee Fanchers site, saw that the exterior window covers are held on w/magnets. Do there seem to be enough of them to keep them in place in windy weather? How do the magnets stay attached to the reflective foam; does it look like the connection of the magnets is going to last? Are these the new high-tech magnets?- I've used them and they are so strong that they put a real stress on the material they are attached to. Thanks!

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:52 pm

wolfywho wrote:
Thanks pnwkayaker. I'm using a Flir thermal imaging camera that connects to my iPhone.

Thanks a lot for the info!

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:58 am

I just used a Harbor Freight moving blanket for the rear hatch. Cost $4 plus some snaps I already had. The 40x72 blankets are big enough and you just trim the sides. I find the rear hatch produces the most cold drafts beause the window is so big and even if you close the curtain it leaves gaps.

Jonce makes a really nice preofessional looking one that is for sale in the classifieds but this will probably work o.k. A lighter color would have been nice but this is what your get for $4. They have larger blue blankets but then you would have to cut 3 sides.

Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:32 pm

davevickery wrote: I just used a Harbor Freight moving blanket for the rear hatch. Cost $4 plus some snaps I already had. The 40x72 blankets are big enough and you just trim the sides.

Thanks for the tip, Dave! I'll definitely do that. I wonder if a moving blanket would insulate better than a sheet of Reflectix of the same dimension alone. I was considering buying the CVC new set. It looks excellent and it's affordable but this may do the trick in the front and back, then do my own Reflectix on the sides. The CVC set only covers the glass.

Also, great report on the heat loss experiment, wolfywho! I saw in VOG a few days ago. I just purchased the new CVC pop top tent Reflectix insulation, which is exterior and doubles as a rainfly. Would it make a difference having the Reflectix on the outside?

Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:51 pm

Yep, and I just layed my hatch screen over it on the living room floor to see where to put the snaps and trim sides.

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:34 pm

We have the Franchers interior panels for the pop top canvas. The snaps are attached to the wood frame of our 82 poptop. They work quite well. I like the moving blanket for the rear window.

Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:30 pm

which Franchers insulation pop top do you suggest, the R-4 or the R-8 ?

They usually sell only the R-8 now, but they were selling also the R-4 and they can produce some again.

I believe the R-4 is more for late fall and early spring camping, then the R-8 for the winter, but do you have any feedback on it?

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:57 pm

I'm ignorant on how to interpret the IR photos in regards to loss of interior heat. Heat is transmitted by conduction, radiation, and convection. Any material will reduce convection. Metal will conduct heat faster than glass. Radiation will depend on material and color. A moving blanket may reduce convection and may be a poor conductor, but the dark color will absorb heat. Reflectix will be a very poor absorber of heat and a poor conductor of heat, but if it is not secured well it will allow convection. Reflectix should be placed on the inside of the glass and windows and taped/secured on all the edges. If it is on the outside then the interior heat will be used to heat the glass. A cooler temperature reading in the morning does not mean less heat loss. You would have to compare temperatures with and without the insulation under the same conditions and time frame. The removal of paneling and installation of an insulation material would be the best procedure for the metal surfaces of the vehicle. The photos of the interior are the best for determining where to insulate.

I have a '69 camper that I use for ski trips and winter camping. I have insulated the windows, poptop, and bed cushion with reflectix. I have not insulated my Vanagon nor used it for winter camping.

Aloha
tp

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:08 am

Wolfywho,
I just noticed this on your site:
"In part 5 of this series, I’ll be testing Campervanculture.com’s exterior reflectix tent thermal (Westfalia Roof Thermal Wrap). I think their product will kick ass too, just as much as these products from Fancher’s."

Looking forward to it. My CVC exterior reflectix tent thermal seems to be good of quality through I have only opened the package and haven't installed it in the van yet (forced hibernation due to salty roads).

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:57 pm

I was wondering how you were heating the interior, and found this in your first link

"The Little Buddy space heater really helps heat things up quickly, but I’m not crazy about the slight smell it gives off."

do you realize you are supposed to open a window when you use that heater?

http://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl/file/id/217/portable_buddy_heater_manual_usa_2016.pdf
"This is an unvented gas-fired portable heater. It uses air (oxygen) from the area in which it is used. Adequate combustion and ventilation air must be provided. Refer to page 3.
...
This heater requires a vent area of 9 square inches (example 3” x 3” opening) minimum for adequate ventilation during operation.
...
When used without adequate combustion and ventilation air, this heater may give off excessive CARBON MONOXIDE, an odorless, poisonous gas.
...
• Lack of proper ventilation air will lead to
improper combustion.
• Improper combustion can lead to carbon
monoxide poisoning"

some of my experience with buddy type heaters
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=316734&start=20

I got a lot of hate for suggesting that I could smell the heater, but I could. I ended up going to a Propex Heater. They are hella Loud!, but they are fed by their own outside air intake, and they vent to the outside. No need to run with an open window, like a Buddy style heater.

people Ive camped with Hated the noise from my propex. I added a muffler, which helped them a lot. It is still just as loud inside the van. I could not sleep with it running.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2917358&highlight=taos#2917358

Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:46 pm

R8, we have used it with heat in winter and AC in the summer. The fit was excellent, and this was DIY project I decided to differ to an expert. I made a skirt for our window AC and that took about 40 hours to complete. Time is
Money and franchers delivered. I would have taken a season and it would not
Have been as nice. Folds into its own bag about the size of a pillow.

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:25 pm

If you decide to make one of these yourself, make sure you reinforce the snaps, mine have already pulled out. I am not sure what would work.

Dave