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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:22 pm

66 Bug I am restoring and when reassembling I am having a hard time with the rear passenger axle nut. I can't seem to get it on enough to put the cotter pin in it. I can stick a wire through but not the normal cotter. Is this common? I see on other threads people are recommending over 200# of torque on this puppy. Not sure what I am putting on it now but absent taking a sledge to the breaker bar it is on there. Could something be in the way?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:11 pm

You can't get it tight enough with a breaker bar and socket. They make a special axle nut tool that goes on a breaker bar. You hit the tool with a heavy hammer while putting pressure on with the breaker bar. You need to get that nut TIGHT!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:11 pm

Doesn't sound like everything is seated properly. I would make sure the bearing is seated. I had that problem and the bearing wasn't seated all the way. Leaked like crazy and made a heck of a lot of noise. I had to tear it apart again.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:53 pm

Yes, it's 217 ft. lbs

h~moto wrote: You can't get it tight enough with a breaker bar and socket.
Umm, yes you can, just stand on the on the breaker bar with your body.

Math time:
Let's say you weight 217 lbs.
You would stand on the bar with your full body weight 1 foot (12 inches) out from the socket to apply that much force.

If you weight less...
Let's say you weight 170.
You would stand on it 217 * 12 inches / 170 = 15.3"
Substitute your weight in that formula for the 170 to get where you should stand.
And it means stand on it, don't jump.

Don't hammer stuff. :)

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:09 pm

Try slipping a 4' long piece of metal pipe over the handle of your breaker bar. This should give you the added leverage you need. This is the method that I use.

I believe a bit over 50# of force on the 4' pipe will give you the 200+ foot pounds you need at the minimum on the axel nut.

You'll also need the parking brake set and / or chocks for the rear wheels to keep them from turning as you crank on that nut.

Seems like "Mission Impossible" the first time you do it, but you need to find a system that works for you (expedient or proprietary tools) because if you're going to do your own maintenance, removing the rear brake drums is required to R&R the rear brakes (among other jobs).

Besides the "hammer nut breaker" tool, there's also the ever popular "Torque Master" tool, which I always swear to myself that I'm gonna buy every time I use my cheater pipe (but then never do since the pipe works quite well...)

Good luck!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:18 pm

elpasorabo wrote: I can't seem to get it on enough to put the cotter pin in it. I can stick a wire through but not the normal cotter. Is this common? I see on other threads people are recommending over 200# of torque on this puppy. Not sure what I am putting on it now but absent taking a sledge to the breaker bar it is on there. Could something be in the way?

If you can stick a wire through the hole but not the cotter pin, and the axle nut is quite tight, then you're REAL CLOSE, just have to tighten the nut a tad more. You can do it, use the extension bar, get a TorqueMeister tool, a $40 Harbor Freight electric impact wrench and a $15 36mm impact socket, or the Whack-a-Mole axle tool and a sledge hammer.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:59 pm

h~moto wrote: You can't get it tight enough with a breaker bar and socket. They make a special axle nut tool that goes on a breaker bar. You hit the tool with a heavy hammer while putting pressure on with the breaker bar. You need to get that nut TIGHT!

put this special tool on the nut and whack that puppy, with a 3 pound sledge to line the holes up after you know it is torqued about right... I used to borrow a 250 pound torque bar from a friend and then I bought one at Lowe's for $89, guaranteed for life and now lend it out a lot.

After torqued to 250 pounds, use this great and necessary tool to line the holes up... not a good idea to loosen it a little, at this point. Just be attentive.... that's all it is.

This WORKS!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Pep Boys and O'Reilly have 1/2 inch torque wrench loaner tools that go to 250 ft lbs.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:08 pm

Cusser wrote: Pep Boys and O'Reilly have 1/2 inch torque wrench loaner tools that go to 250 ft lbs.

Good idea to rent one... Buying your own is my preference. then if your a fuc*er, you can rent yours out.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:21 am

Thanks folks for all the great feedback. Sounds like most have experienced the concern of over tightening, but just get over it. I will break out the cheater and get on it. Thanks

Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:44 am

Note that the 216 ft.lb. spec is the minimum torque. You tighten the nut that far, then if needed to clear the cotter pin hole, tighten it further.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:25 pm

KTPhil wrote: Note that the 216 ft.lb. spec is the minimum torque. You tighten the nut that far, then if needed to clear the cotter pin hole, tighten it further.
correct info as always Phil. bill may

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:49 am

if you rent from autozone you have three months to return it. i think pep boys only gives you a week or two.

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:26 am

gingergypsy wrote: if you rent from autozone you have three months to return it.

Unless they've changed, the tools I've gotten from Autozone on the loaner program were "forever" if you kept the box. One pays deposit of more than the tool sells for, so Autozone doesn't care if you keep it, it's a sale. I believe that my gear puller and tie rod end puller were done this way.

I also used loaner ring compressor and cylinder hone from Autozone in 2011 for the rebuild of my B2200 truck engine.

O'Reilly and Pep Boys do loaner tools differently (finite time to return), have not yet used either of those sources.

Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:41 pm

Cusser wrote: gingergypsy wrote: if you rent from autozone you have three months to return it.

Unless they've changed, the tools I've gotten from Autozone on the loaner program were "forever" if you kept the box. One pays deposit of more than the tool sells for, so Autozone doesn't care if you keep it, it's a sale. I believe that my gear puller and tie rod end puller were done this way.

I also used loaner ring compressor and cylinder hone from Autozone in 2011 for the rebuild of my B2200 truck engine.

O'Reilly and Pep Boys do loaner tools differently (finite time to return), have not yet used either of those sources.

im not sure. i rented a torque wrench, axle nut tool, and breaker bar and when i asked they said three months. but who knows? maybe they're just told to say that.

Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:27 pm

You need a torque multiplier. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-16-9602

For years I messed with the long torque wrench, and the "beater tool". You'll never go back to that nonsense once you get the torque multiplier.

Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:23 pm

SdAufKla wrote:
You'll also need the parking brake set and / or chocks for the rear wheels to keep them from turning as you crank on that nut.

I also use the multiplyer tool and its worth the extra few bucks.

I would not use the parking brake when torqueing these axle nuts. The added pressure from the breaks on the drums will not show exact torque. Not only do break pads stop the wheel from turning they will drag on the drums side ways for seating things and compressing everything.

Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:26 pm

BXRJIM wrote:
I would not use the parking brake when torqueing these axle nuts. The added pressure from the breaks on the drums will not show exact torque. Not only do break pads stop the wheel from turning they will drag on the drums side ways for seating things and compressing everything.
You overthink things.
It really doesn't matter if you get the exact torque. Just be over 217.

You might think that since they called it 217, you shouldn't let it go if it's only 215. Not so. The original VW spec is 30mkg. 217 is a conversion from that value.
Later VWs had an axle nut spec of 35mkg, or 253ftlbs.

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:11 am

Bruce wrote: BXRJIM wrote:
I would not use the parking brake when torqueing these axle nuts. The added pressure from the breaks on the drums will not show exact torque. Not only do break pads stop the wheel from turning they will drag on the drums side ways for seating things and compressing everything.
You overthink things.
It really doesn't matter if you get the exact torque. Just be over 217.

You might think that since they called it 217, you shouldn't let it go if it's only 215. Not so. The original VW spec is 30mkg. 217 is a conversion from that value.
Later VWs had an axle nut spec of 35mkg, or 253ftlbs.

I still have to disagree with this method. I have had an issue with doing it this way and to prove it to myself I set the parking break and set the torque on the crown nut with my mutiyer tool- released the parking break and the torque was abut 48# low.

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:05 pm

I wouldn't dilly dally or dither about the situation. Go to your tool box and get your torque wrench (you know the same one that you use to tighten the flywheel gland nut)( a essential tool for working on cars) and set it to specification.