TheSamba.com :: View topic - How to "Needle grease" balljoints and tie rod ends

Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:42 pm

If you want to extend the life of your balljoints you can add a little grease with this simple method. For example if your ball joint boots are in bad shape but you don't want to rebuild it yet, it makes sense to extend the life of what you have, until it becomes convenient to rebuild.

Or maybe you bought new balljoints, and want to be sure they are full of grease for the miles ahead. After 30,000 miles you can peel off the silicone and give them another pump. It's very "easy". 8)

On a 2WD you can needle grease all 4 balljoints and 2 tierod ends. On the Syncro, to drill the the lower balljoints you'd have to remove the driveshaft.

You might be interested in another thread called "HOW TO add grease zerk fittings". I don't think it's worth installing grease fittings because you probably don't have to grease them more often than 30,000 mile intervals, if that. The main benefit, I think is to be sure they are full from the start, and if the boot breaks, you can pump the dirt out for awhile until you renew the boot. Grease fittings are a little more 'elegant' though. 8)

You may be wondering if the silicone will come off over time. It doesn't, but it's easy to scrape off and add a dab (and a pump) in case you're wondering. With luck some member will report back after a few years. We used this method on farm eqpt 35 years ago in a similar situation and found that silicone even sticks HARD to greasy surfaces. It's strange & amazing stuff.

This is a pic of a Syncro, showing the upper ball joint and the tie rod end. 2WD looks similar.

The lower ball joint is not accessible on the Syncro. To grease the lower ball joints you must remove the driveshaft, which is not real simple.....

The lower ball joint is accessible from below on a 2WD. I would have taken a pic of drilling but I don't have a 2WD. I found this pic in TheSamba gallery.

Heres a pic where I drilled a 3/32" hole into the topside of the upper ball joint (UBJ). The drill lifted out little spirals of grease that's hard like wax.

3/32" hole in the tie-rod end cover.

This is a pic of the grease gun coupler and a "needle greaser". There are also needle greasers lik a hypodermic needle, but this type has a cone on the end. When you press the conical point into the 3/32" hole, it seals up and builds pressure.

Pumping grease into the backside of the ball joint. It's squirting out thru a hole in the old cracked boot.

Adding a few pumps to a tie rod end balljoint. This boot was intact, so I pumped carefully until I saw the boot inflate a little, and stopped.

Wait a few minutes and let the grease stabilize, so it's not backing out of the fill-hole.

Clean off the hole area with a solvent (or carburetor cleaner) so the silicone will stick. Don't have to be too anal, silicone sticks to greasy surfaces, but may as well clean it the best you can.

I used silicone on the tie-rod, and Permatex Ultra Gray on the UBJ hole. No reason, just wanted to post a pic of both. I do like Permatex Ultra Gray, it's silicone, but a little tougher.

Heres the tools and the stuff. Hope this helps someone to extend the life of their balljoints.

Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:55 am

Thanks! :D

Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:10 am

Nice... thank you.

I will buy this kit for my grease gun...

https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-61077L-Lubrication-...4ZM6XWX0ZP

Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:26 am

0to60in6min wrote: Nice... thank you. I will buy this kit for my grease gun...
https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-61077L-Lubrication-...4ZM6XWX0ZP

Thanks. I don't know how I overlooked that, I'm buying one. For $21 that's about a million times better, having all the (messy) options IN A CASE. Here's a pic.

You can use the hypodermic to poke your boots too. Or slip under the small end of your CV joint boots. If you poke the boots (IMHO) you should FIRST look at pictures of cracked boots to familiarize yourself where they are stressed (thus break) then poke somewhere that's NOT stressed. Here's a thread showing pics "Needle-greasing CVs".

Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:53 am

Now you will want to use the same type of grease that is already in the bearing, or purge all the old grease out if you dont know type it is. you dont want to have a mix of different grease types in the bearing as that can lead to grease failure. some greases when mixed will harden up and prevent release of the lubricating oils in them, other mixes can cause all the oils to rapidly run out of the grease, with all the lub running to spots where it cant do its job.

so always purge unknown grease fully when adding new grease, then stick with a certain type of grease there after.

good luck

Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:58 am

Awesome info, Thanks for all your efforts!

I have a little grease gun with the needle tip, great use for it beyond CVs!

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:00 pm

bluebus86 wrote: Now you will want to use the same type of grease that is already in the bearing, or purge all the old grease out if you dont know type it is. you dont want to have a mix of different grease types in the bearing as that can lead to grease failure. some greases when mixed will harden up and prevent release of the lubricating oils in them, other mixes can cause all the oils to rapidly run out of the grease, with all the lub running to spots where it cant do its job.

so always purge unknown grease fully when adding new grease, then stick with a certain type of grease there after.

If this was significant every item that has a grease fitting would have a little disclaimer/instruction sheet with this info. Not just CV-joints, and I don't think this is any requirements included with conventional U-joints. I doubt the advice will provide any benefit to balljoints.

I think the ball joint's worst fear is the boot breaks and it runs for awhile in grease contaminated with dirt, sand, mud etc. Then it runs "dry" for awhile and wears significantly. Any fresh grease is a benefit at that point. For most folks one grease gun could be more than they can handle. Different greases? ----Forget it. Make it too complicated and a lot of folks will just skip grease guns altogether.

IMHO there is no benefit to concern yourself with grease type with regards to balljoints - they are slow-moving and tough as nails. Just monitoring the condition of the boots will put you at in the upper echelon of "good balljoint owners club". And a pump of fresh grease every 30k miles? Give yourself a pat on the back for that! 8)

I don't know how often balljoints should be greased, but you don't want to pop the boots or inflate them such that they pull off "the big end".

Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Sodo wrote: bluebus86 wrote: Now you will want to use the same type of grease that is already in the bearing, or purge all the old grease out if you dont know type it is. you dont want to have a mix of different grease types in the bearing as that can lead to grease failure. some greases when mixed will harden up and prevent release of the lubricating oils in them, other mixes can cause all the oils to rapidly run out of the grease, with all the lub running to spots where it cant do its job.

so always purge unknown grease fully when adding new grease, then stick with a certain type of grease there after.

If this was significant every item that has a grease fitting would have a little disclaimer/instruction sheet with this info. Not just CV-joints, and I don't think this is any requirements included with conventional U-joints. I doubt the advice will provide any benefit to balljoints.

I think the ball joint's worst fear is the boot breaks and it runs for awhile in grease contaminated with dirt, sand, mud etc. Then it runs "dry" for awhile and wears significantly. Any fresh grease is a benefit at that point. For most folks one grease gun could be more than they can handle. Different greases? ----Forget it. Make it too complicated and a lot of folks will just skip grease guns altogether.

IMHO there is no benefit to concern yourself with grease type with regards to balljoints - they are slow-moving and tough as nails. Just monitoring the condition of the boots will put you at in the upper echelon of "good balljoint owners club". And a pump of fresh grease every 30k miles? Give yourself a pat on the back for that! 8)

I don't know how often balljoints should be greased, but you don't want to pop the boots or inflate them such that they pull off "the big end".

Not true ..... mixing of incombatlble greases can be a problem even on ball joints such as these. this advice applies to all applications if the different greases do adversly react, you lose lubrication properties of the mixed grease.

good luck

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:03 pm

While there used to be significant issues with lube incompatibility, the reality of today's SAE grease categories and the settling on common base stocks and additive package has essentially eliminated that as a concern.

I think this is a great call, Sodo. The caps you drill through on these things are little more than thick sheetmetal, so its easy-peazy to do, and even some shavings are going to be a non-issue because this is not a spinning bearing. The grease lubricates a slow moving huge surface part and functions to prevent rust - that's it. You don't even have to drill accurately in the center - just an empty chamber full of hardened grease on your Van in there.

I once looked at an old Rolls Royce that had a rubber bellows on the floor to lube the entire suspension and chassis. It had thin metal lines like brake lines to carry oil to each joint and bearing. You just remembered to squish down with your foot monthly or so and everything was kept lubed. Amazing.

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:37 pm

Would there be any reason to seal the hole if one's doing gobs of dusty roads?

Or did I miss that above, maybe?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:06 am

E1 wrote: Would there be any reason to seal the hole if one's doing gobs of dusty roads?

Or did I miss that above, maybe?

He did seal them.

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:29 am

IdahoDoug wrote: While there used to be significant issues with lube incompatibility, the reality of today's SAE grease categories and the settling on common base stocks and additive package has essentially eliminated that as a concern.

I think this is a great call, Sodo. The caps you drill through on these things are little more than thick sheetmetal, so its easy-peazy to do, and even some shavings are going to be a non-issue because this is not a spinning bearing. The grease lubricates a slow moving huge surface part and functions to prevent rust - that's it. You don't even have to drill accurately in the center - just an empty chamber full of hardened grease on your Van in there.

I once looked at an old Rolls Royce that had a rubber bellows on the floor to lube the entire suspension and chassis. It had thin metal lines like brake lines to carry oil to each joint and bearing. You just remembered to squish down with your foot monthly or so and everything was kept lubed. Amazing.

SAE rating of greases does not eliminate the need for using compatible greases. if wrong mix is used, that big slow moving part does not get properly lubed.

as far as metal shavings being a non issue, really????? thats just wrong.

heck pump all the grease out displacing it with air, toss in some metal shavings lets just run it dry with metal shavings and call it good, grease and metal shavings are so non issues, YIKES!

you can lead a horse to water, its up to the horse to drink, read the links..

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/882/mixing-greases

https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricant-expe...conversion

if drill shavings are a problem , consider using a prick punch to create the hole. and while you at it purge the old unknown grease out to be assured only one grease type is present. even if the new and old greases are the same types, it is good to purge out the old contaminated dried up grease and fill the part with only the new grease.

do it right.

good luck

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:02 am

bluebus86 wrote: IdahoDoug wrote: While there used to be significant issues with lube incompatibility, the reality of today's SAE grease categories and the settling on common base stocks and additive package has essentially eliminated that as a concern.

I think this is a great call, Sodo. The caps you drill through on these things are little more than thick sheetmetal, so its easy-peazy to do, and even some shavings are going to be a non-issue because this is not a spinning bearing. The grease lubricates a slow moving huge surface part and functions to prevent rust - that's it. You don't even have to drill accurately in the center - just an empty chamber full of hardened grease on your Van in there.

I once looked at an old Rolls Royce that had a rubber bellows on the floor to lube the entire suspension and chassis. It had thin metal lines like brake lines to carry oil to each joint and bearing. You just remembered to squish down with your foot monthly or so and everything was kept lubed. Amazing.

SAE rating of greases does not eliminate the need for using compatible greases. if wrong mix is used, that big slow moving part does not get properly lubed.

as far as metal shavings being a non issue, really????? thats just wrong.

heck pump all the grease out displacing it with air, toss in some metal shavings lets just run it dry with metal shavings and call it good, grease and metal shavings are so non issues, YIKES!

you can lead a horse to water, its up to the horse to drink, read the links..

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/882/mixing-greases

https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricant-expe...conversion

if drill shavings are a problem , consider using a prick punch to create the hole. and while you at it purge the old unknown grease out to be assured only one grease type is present. even if the new and old greases are the same types, it is good to purge out the old contaminated dried up grease and fill the part with only the new grease.

do it right.

good luck

Much obliged for bringing a complete end to this discussion with your most recent posting. Case closed, time to move on.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:47 am

I am waiting for the grease gun adapter kit and I wonder if this right angle adapter would be good since since there's not much room down there...

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-90-angle-drill-attachment-69337.html

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:03 am

0to60in6min wrote: there's not much room down there...

Plenty of space for a normal drill motor above the UBJ and the tie-rod.
For the lower ball joint LBJ you just have to drive the van up onto a ramp and drill upward. I hate to discourage a guy from buying more tools though. 8)

Here's a similar pic, with a larger hole but it can be done with 3/32". If concerned about the metal peices as the drill breaks thru, consider stopping just prior to breaking thru, then punch thru the thin foil with a sharp point and the pieces will remain attached. It can be done. Grind a (broken or new) drillbit to a sharp point.

I think the one or two tiny bits of mild steel from a 3/32" hole is inconsequential. It's better than non-greased. A ball joint is not like an engine or gearbox where the same chunk circulates all around at high speed causing trouble on hundreds of (previously pristine) surfaces.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:26 pm

Blue,

Its not a machine. It's a ball joint. Would it be best if there were not a shaving in there - yes. But sarcastically taking things to the extreme serves nothing. It's a great idea that's simple and hard to screw up. That's my point.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:41 am

0to60in6min wrote: I am waiting for the grease gun adapter kit and I wonder if this right angle adapter would be good since since there's not much room down there...

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-90-angle-drill-attachment-69337.html

Can't speak for the quality of this tool, but for $40 you can get it from Walmart. Other vendors list it cheaper.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/3-8-Electric-Close-Quar...mp;veh=sem

Harbor Freight offers this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-Variable-Speed-Reversible-Close-Quarters-Drill-60610.html

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:01 am

^^^ FWIW...

Use your own drill, spend less on these and get better tools that will serve you better & longer:

$20 right angle adapter - https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWARA100-Right-Angle-Attachment/dp/B00C0VSNKQ
$10 impact drill bits - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-BL5IM-Impact-Tough-Bl...=1-15&

8)

- Dave

Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:55 pm

The $29 HF angle drill "looks" like a much higher quality than the $39 Walmart tool. I bought the $39 HF angle drill today, so I'll have it if I need it (like insurance).

Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:49 pm

Sodo, that was great info, this week end will be dedicated to do just that thanks again. Don't worry about our nuclear engineers piping in their comments, no body listens to those jerks.