TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:58 pm

I have a kit for my 69 I got from John at Aircooled.net. Soon it will be time to replace the pads. I have searched this forum and the Ghia forum and can't come up with any step by step. I have also searched the web for a video but all that I have watched, I have found none that show an older VW. I know it's not hard and probably don't really need much. I just like to read and watch before I do stuff. Does anyone have a link to a video that shows the replacement on a bug?

Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:33 pm

I have done brake pads on many vehicles, never on a VW. I recommend a disk brake pad spreader tool, available at O'Reilly, Autozone , etc., $10. But a big C-clamp can also be used. Get a small one-use pack of disk brake grease (don't get on the pad or rotor surface !!!), about $1.29
http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-to...E.jpg[img]

I typically do not replace or regrind the brake rotors unless they are grooved or damaged. My favorite for brakes is currently Wagner ThermoQuiet, use them on my trucks and Yukon; don't know if they have application for VW though.

Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:21 pm

Unless your calipers and pistons are really nasty and rusted, you can push the caliper piston back in with a big pair of channel lock plyers if you have them on hand.

It's a very easy, straight forward project. Just make sure the calipers are not leaking fluid or they will need to be rebuilt. Check your rubber brake hoses for being old and dry. If so, replace them.

Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:15 pm

I have the tool that Cusser posted above. However, if you have the ATE calipers, those will not work. The process for the ATE is quite simple.

1. Remove the pin/s (older versions have single pin, later have 2).
2. Remove the anti rattle spring under the pin.
3. Use a flat blade screwdriver or similar to lever the old pads back so that the pistons retract into the caliper. Do that for both pads/pistons
4. Pull out old pads.
5. The pistons have a load spreading gizmo where it contacts the pads. Make sure these are in the correct orientation before dropping in the new pads.

Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:25 pm

I haven't replaced them on a VW in years, but I remember having a hard time getting the pads to press in the calipers, until someone told me to remove the brake reservoir cap before pressing the calipers in, via the channel-lock trick on the old pads.

Be sure to put the cap back on when done.

Tim

Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:06 am

Tim Donahoe wrote: I haven't replaced them on a VW in years, but I remember having a hard time getting the pads to press in the calipers, until someone told me to remove the brake reservoir cap before pressing the calipers in, via the channel-lock trick on the old pads.

Be sure to put the cap back on when done. Tim

Not only should the reservoir cap be removed while doing this, oftentimes some brake fluid should be removed from the reservoir; because when the pistons are pushed back into the caliper to allow the new, thicker pads to be installed/fit, fluid gets pushed back into the reservoir.

And an overflowing brake fluid reservoir makes a mess, and can dissolve paint. Don't ask me how I know this !!!

Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:50 am

Hi John.
If your aircooled.net disc brake kit is somewhat new, as compared to possible 20-40 year old parts, the replacement of the pads is an easy job to do. I viewed your gallery pics and while I did see a pic of some front brake parts, it wasn't clear which caliper you have. If you have the common 1 or 2 pin ATE/Varga calipers the job just requires you to remove the pin(s), retract the pistons, install new pads, reinstall pins, depress brake pedal to seat pads. If for some reason you have the odd Girling caliper it requires you to unbolt it from the spindle.
Something I learned from working on later ABS cars is the Mfg does not want tech's pushing the old/dirty brake fluid back up to the ABS motor. Appling this logic to our cars lets not push the old dirty brake fluid back thru the master cyl. What I do is to have a clear bottle/hose attached to the bleeder fitting and when opened will retract the pistons back pushing the old fluid into the bottle. This is a win-win situation because it affords you the opportunity to flush your brake system. Most car manufacturers suggest this every 2 years. I personally buy my Dot3 in a quart container for this job. A 12-18 inch long screwdriver or simple C clamp works well for this. I will utilize the old brake pad as the device between my screwdriver and the caliper's piston. If you are just replacing pads only you can replace one pad at a time. With each pad out you can use an old toothbrush or specialty brush to clean the caliper's surface that the pad's upper/lower contact point slides on.
There is much debate on the use of specialty greases/silicone/chemicals to control noises, etc. Also, depending on which pad your car uses there are different compounds to consider (organic, ceramic, semi-metallic).
This is also a time to decide whether you wish to service the front wheel bearings with new grease.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCdH6tlPaVI

Hope this helps, Bill.

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:17 am

Same procedure as Bill does on piston compression, I prefer to let existing fluid flush out of the bleeders.

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:29 am

One other thing to note; is that before you go and push that now dirty piston back into the caliper, you should clean the sides of it first and even run some fine Emory cloth around it, so that you don't push dirt and crap into your caliper. That's a good way to get a sticking caliper and ruin a rotor or worse. Ask me how I learned that - and I will say the hard way! :wink:

Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:03 pm

beetlenut wrote: One other thing to note; is that before you go and push that now dirty piston back into the caliper, you should clean the sides of it first and even run some fine Emory cloth around it, so that you don't push dirt and crap into your caliper. That's a good way to get a sticking caliper and ruin a rotor or worse. Ask me how I learned that - and I will say the hard way! :wink:

Beetlenut, the caliper piston in a functioning caliper is covered by the dust boot. If one sees the shinny sides of the caliper piston then they need to consider a rebuild kit. The original poster stated he has a kit from aircooled.net. Doubt it is in a condition that requires a rebuild kit.
Bill

Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:22 pm

rockerarm wrote: beetlenut wrote: One other thing to note; is that before you go and push that now dirty piston back into the caliper, you should clean the sides of it first and even run some fine Emory cloth around it, so that you don't push dirt and crap into your caliper. That's a good way to get a sticking caliper and ruin a rotor or worse. Ask me how I learned that - and I will say the hard way! :wink:

Beetlenut, the caliper piston in a functioning caliper is covered by the dust boot. If one sees the shinny sides of the caliper piston then they need to consider a rebuild kit. The original poster stated he has a kit from aircooled.net. Doubt it is in a condition that requires a rebuild kit.
Bill

Some, but not all. The set-up on my Mitsubishi Outlander did not have a dust boot and became a problem child.

Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:26 pm

rockerarm wrote:
Beetlenut, the caliper piston in a functioning caliper is covered by the dust boot. If one sees the shinny sides of the caliper piston then they need to consider a rebuild kit. The original poster stated he has a kit from aircooled.net. Doubt it is in a condition that requires a rebuild kit.
Bill

Rockerarm, you mention a rebuild kit. I'm actually looking for a disk brake caliper rebuild kit for my wife's Beetle. I searched a little online and I don't see one, can you point me in a direction?

I just realized I'll need it as we drove to our thanksgiving dinner and had a caliper lock up on us. I don't have details yet on the caliper model but will pull the wheel tomorrow morning and find out. If I had to guess, it's this kit or a very similar caliper design with two pins holding the pads in place.
http://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2983.html

Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:44 pm

Hi madworks, and WELCOME.
Yes you really need to inspect and identify which caliper you have. One thing to consider here is the 2-pin calipers were used on the Karman Ghia (40mm piston) and the heavier type 3's (42mm piston). Not sure if there is an easy way to ID which one you have by looking at the exterior. Both calipers were made by ATE, factory installed, and will bolt up to either spindle.
On a type 1 bug, my guess you have the type 3 calipers as they were sold to cover both models (ghia and type 3). Calipers tend to be pretty reliable, so I would suspect the rubber flex hose swelling on the inside, thus not allowing the pad/piston to naturally retract. Also verify master cylinder/brake pedal freeplay.
Let us know if you need step by step diagnostics to determine which part is at fault.
Hope this helps, Bill.

If you are so inclined, Mr Ray Greenwood posted a caliper repair post here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658176

Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:57 am

rockerarm wrote: Hi madworks, and WELCOME.
........
Hope this helps, Bill.

If you are so inclined, Mr Ray Greenwood posted a caliper repair post here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658176

Thanks Bill, lots of incredible info on here. I read through Ray's thread, AMAZING detail. Thanks for that link. Just a note, the PO did replace the rubber lines that attach to the calipers. He thought that fixed it as he went for several rides after and didn't have any lock up. Realized last night that heat compounds the issue and contributes to the lockup. On the way home I told my wife to let the engine do as much braking as possible and use the brakes when necessary. Made it home with no lock incident.

Will let the thread get back to the OPs question, although I'm sure the link to Mr Greenwood's post will be valuable for others searching for info on disk brakes.

Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:14 pm

Cusser wrote: ... Get a small one-use pack of disk brake grease (don't get on the pad or rotor surface !!!) ...
Good info like this is what makes thesamba great, except for the dead link in this old thread. Here's a pic I found today at autozone dot com (left), but when I went to the store they had it in a different package (middle and right for front and back).

Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:31 pm

I fully rebuilt the original ATE callipers on my RHD ‘68. It was not difficult but you needed the correct internal o rings. Surprisingly clean after 50 years!

I know the OP doesn’t have the original VW part but I say have a go!

The pads are easily retractable as someone has said by opening the bleeder and yes you MUST decant some fluid out of the reservoir before you start to avoid an overflow especially if the pads were worn and you e topped up the reservoir.

Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:38 pm

Cusser wrote: ... a big C-clamp can also be used ...
Thank you Cusser for yet another useful suggestion. Just completed my first disk brake job (not on a VW). Had to use C-clamp AND channel locks:

Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:19 am

MrGoodtunes wrote: Cusser wrote: ... a big C-clamp can also be used ...
Thank you Cusser for yet another useful suggestion. Just completed my first disk brake job (not on a VW). Had to use C-clamp AND channel locks
And a real brake pad spreader tool is only about $10.

Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:14 am

On Ghia type dual piston type calipers, a simple flat blade screw driver is all that’s needed. In fact, leaving the caliper in place is far easier & safer as it keeps the opposite piston from hyperextending as you compress the other.

Remove retainer pin/s, Slip screwdriver in between the pad & rotor, open the bleeder valve, gently pry the pad outward (away from the rotor.) to compress the piston, close bleeder valve, remove old pad, slip new one in, repeat for other pad in that caliper, reinstall retainer pin/s & then repeat for the caliper on other side.

Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:33 am

TDCTDI wrote: On Ghia type dual piston type calipers, a simple flat blade screw driver is all that’s needed. In fact, leaving the caliper in place is far easier & safer as it keeps the opposite piston from hyperextending as you compress the other.

Remove retainer pin/s, Slip screwdriver in between the pad & rotor, open the bleeder valve, gently pry the pad outward (away from the rotor.) to compress the piston, close bleeder valve, remove old pad, slip new one in, repeat for other pad in that caliper, reinstall retainer pin/s & then repeat for the caliper on other side.

You might think so, but look at the picture he provided! The hydraulic line is removed completely and he's STILL using a C-clamp AND water pump pliers to move the piston! :shock: