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Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:59 am

I'm about to dive into restoring an 86 Westy Syncro but I am considering outsourcing for paint so that it's done absolutely right. I can do ok but I don't think I have the patience for what I really want in the end. I'm in San Diego and I've already hit up Ceasar at California Westy's and just like I thought, the estimate was nuts. :shock: I want to drag in the stripped carcas of the van, have some minimal body work done as it is in good shape and then painted properly. Quoted $7k-8,500!! I'm sure it will be epic but holy crap!! Is that typical?

Anyways, for those of you who have done this, what did you pay? If you're local or have been in SoCal, can you recommend a shop? I'd be willing to tow it within a couple of hours for a good, affordable paint job.

Thanks in advance for your consideration and input. 8)

Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:27 am

I had a van that was painted in Tijuana once. Was done nicely. Have you checked pricing down there? At the time they could get better paint because of relaxed regulations. Don't know if it's the same now but may be worth checking.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:50 am

Around here I have a person who does small jobs at the Chevy dealer and also owns a shop nearby. He has been recommended by two people who are familiar with his work and also work in the auto restoration fields.

I plan on doing a paint job later this year. I will remove the windows, trim, bumpers. rubber, lights etc, but not the top. He will bang out the dents and patch some small rust areas, I want the jambs painted as well as the exterior. Keeping it the same color.

He quoted me $3,500 for this. I'm looking to get a decent job that will last and doesn't scream repainted. Hopefully that's what I get. Part of the problem is the type of paint he can use due to VOC laws.

I guess you could ask around your area at dealerships and such and see who gets recommended.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:46 pm

absolutely right = concours show quality???

absolutely right = fugly but no rust

or what :?: :?:

there is a huge difference in the amount of labor required between those 2 extremes

also will it be the same color or a color change?

bottom line, I doubt it will go over 20k no matter what

Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:57 pm

Thanks for the info so far. Tijuana might be a good bet but logistically difficult for me I think. I'm not looking for show quality. Just good overall quality. Long lasting, doesn't scream repainted and the such. It's originally a dark grey but has been sanded and primed very poorly and left that way. (Why? Why do PO's do have the junk they do?) :roll: I was thinking of changing the color but maybe I'll save some time/money if I keep it the same? I haven't stripped the interior yet so I don't know if it will need paint for sure unless I change the color.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:04 pm

I was quoted 750-1500 for single stage paint alone. The higher level being a quality upgrade. Another friend who also paints on the side thought 1500 for paint was a good deal.

However it is the labor that is the killer.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:09 pm

rmcd wrote: I was quoted 750-1500 for single stage paint alone. The higher level being a quality upgrade. Another friend who also paints on the side thought 1500 for paint was a good deal.

However it is the labor that is the killer.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Maybe $2k max. But is that still gonna get me quality? I know it depends on the shop.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:21 pm

Theres no mystery here.

Take the cost of materials out. Divide amount of money left by 100 to get the number of hours your painter will spend prepping and painting.

Now go ask the show paint guys how many hours they spend prepping and painting.

The ratio is the quality of your paint job at best, and it will likely be much worse.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:26 pm

Also need to consider what you want painted. Roof, awning, mirrors, fiberglas bunpers, grill(s) up to 4, syncro splats, jambs, rear window frames and any bedliner work. All these items require hours of prep and multiple iterations with masking. Dont forget to name the poor bastard that has to put the window rubbers back in!!!

Doing these parts yourself can save some dough at the risk of making it look less professional.

In the end it aint a picasso and it will still be just a truck.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:36 pm

I was quoted $850-1200 for a good single stage paint job.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:43 pm

rmcd wrote: Also need to consider what you want painted. Roof, awning, mirrors, fiberglas bunpers, grill(s) up to 4, syncro splats, jambs, rear window frames and any bedliner work. All these items require hours of prep and multiple iterations with masking. Dont forget to name the poor bastard that has to put the window rubbers back in!!!

Doing these parts yourself can save some dough at the risk of making it look less professional.

In the end it aint a picasso and it will still be just a truck.

I plan to have them just do the body. I'm going to strip EVERYTHING off, drop it off and pick it back up and then start putting it back together. New rubber, grills, lights, plastic, etc. Plan on prepping/painting the pop top myself and so on. I do want to do bed liner on the lower quarters. Not sure if that would be easier before or after paint? I'll have to read around a see.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:23 pm

just get some estimates in SD - it will be expensive

you did not answer as to color change

how long did it sit in primer??

most primes are, or used ot be, porous so that is a bad sign

Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:48 pm

bosco53 wrote: rmcd wrote: I was quoted 750-1500 for single stage paint alone...

That's kinda what I was thinking. Maybe $2k max...

You do realize (I think) he was just referring to the cost of the paint?

The variations in answers may be because your question includes two highly subjective terms: 'reasonable' and 'decent'.

I know $5,000 is about the bottom end of what a respectable shop would want to do a van where I live. Less than that and I would be looking to a sole-proprietor working out of his home garage or a rented booth. Nothing wrong with that.

The least expensive route (other than DIY) is probably Maaco. Some may scoff but in my experience the results you get from those places vary widely from one location to another. If you talk to them about your expectations and look at the work they have on the premises you may be able to get an idea if they are up to the task.

I once got a $29.99 paint job from Earl Scheib that garnered more compliments than any paint work I have owned since. The finish was probably about 10 microns thick... didn't dare polish it or even wax it - just wash carefully. Sold the car while the incredible gloss was still looking good.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:49 pm

Merian wrote: just get some estimates in SD - it will be expensive

you did not answer as to color change

how long did it sit in primer??

most primes are, or used ot be, porous so that is a bad sign

I thought I answered that one? Oh well. I was planning a color change but I may change my mind on that since it would save time and money, if I didn't change color, should the stripped interior be in really good shape. I think it's been sitting primed for quite a while. Like a few years at least. :roll:

Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:53 pm

Low cost paint jobs typically use low quality paints which will chalk out super fast and do not stand up to UVs and road debris. Quality primers and 2 stage paints will cost north of $1000 themselves and good quality body work also typically isn't cheap- someone here stated $100/hr which will vary region to region.

Now quality is a subjective term when it comes to body and paint work.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:59 pm

This question has been beat to death in the past and the answer is still the same.

In the automotive refinishing/restoration game, YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET.

30 years ago a rough ballpark complete was 20 hrs paint time and 20 hrs body time with an additional 10 hrs jamb time plus materials. So, if you call around and get the $52-$75 per hour labor for body/paint and multiply that by 50 hrs , you will get the labor. Good materials is usually figured at half of the labor cost. This formula will get you a good quality job using good quality materials done at a reputable shop. Anything less and you are cutting corners somewhere.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:11 pm

Loving the input guys. Thanks a ton! I've never dealt with body shops on this level before so I am learning a ton. And boy is it costly!!! :shock: I always knew paint/body wasn't cheap for quality but man. Like what's been stated, you get what you pay for. I'll continue my research and quotes and keep the thread updated. Thanks again!

Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:25 pm

Why paint it at all if you plan on using yesterdays technology paint?

Big waste of time and whatever you spend on that.

New millennium materials will cost you 3 times more, but give you almost a lifetime finish if done properly.

I worked for Earl in my youth, he manufacturers his own paint, and it is just alkid plain , no hardner enamel.
It chaulks out in no time.

Check Maaco out.
They do use better refinishing materials, amd for shorter bucks than a body shop.
But, they don't pull much metal, or weld in new stuff, it's all caving & paving with Bondo there.

You only get exactly what you're paying for.
Production wham bam, thank you mame'.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:44 pm

I own a shop and paint for a living so hopefully I can offer some advice to help guide you in your decision. I have painted around 30 vw bus's/vans in the past 15 years for customers and personal cars. I would say the vanagon is one of the toughest to paint since it has alot of ins and outs on the body. Makes sanding, spraying and buffing a real chore.

I am wrapping up my personal 87 syncro westfalia currently and I spent $2k alone on paint and materials and that was my cost owning a shop. I used all the best products all the way through. Surely if you were to use lesser quality products you could probably get out the hole around $1200-1500. Thats just paint and materials. Labor is the area that is a big unknown. Whats the condition of your body?? Any rust?? What seals do you want to replace or other parts that need to be removed for paint?? If looking for an in and out two stage paint job I would budget $15-30k depending on level of quality on a vehicle like a syncro, they are not a civic and they take alot of work to do. I would say $5-12k for a decent job. Really its all in what the shop digs into when sanding the van or what rust needs to be addressed as they progress.

Considering the value of syncros these days I personally decided to go all in and think its a good return on my investment.

With that being said you have other options. Depending on the body condition you could pull the glass and exterior stuff and give it a good two stage paint job for under $5k. Wont be perfect but would be a great job for a daily usable driver. If your keeping the color the same and want to avoid buying new window seals you could use lift tape. That will pull the window rubbers back a little so you can get paint under the seals and dont have to worry about paint all over your window seals.After the paint they pull the tape out and seals drop back down and covers the paint edges. Great stuff.

I would stay away from single stage personally. It has its place in the paint world but not on a syncro or any vehicle of value. It will fade pretty quickly and will not work well if you are spraying a metallic color at all due to the process. I guess of it is spending most of the time garaged you could get away with it. I actually love single stage for solid colors. Its thick and when you spray clear over it, it can be stunning but it doesn't make sense for this application in my opinion. Its great for spraying suspension and misc parts on the van, really durable you don't want to do this paint job again trust me.

Heres my 87 syncro currently, this was out of the gun never buffed yet:

Follow my thread here on the paint:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60

Heres my 87 Doka

[/img]

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:23 pm

casey79westfalia wrote: I own a shop and paint for a living so hopefully I can offer some advice to help guide you in your decision. I have painted around 30 vw bus's/vans in the past 15 years for customers and personal cars. I would say the vanagon is one of the toughest to paint since it has alot of ins and outs on the body. Makes sanding, spraying and buffing a real chore.

I am wrapping up my personal 87 syncro westfalia currently and I spent $2k alone on paint and materials and that was my cost owning a shop. I used all the best products all the way through. Surely if you were to use lesser quality products you could probably get out the hole around $1200-1500. Thats just paint and materials. Labor is the area that is a big unknown. Whats the condition of your body?? Any rust?? What seals do you want to replace or other parts that need to be removed for paint?? If looking for an in and out two stage paint job I would budget $15-30k depending on level of quality on a vehicle like a syncro, they are not a civic and they take alot of work to do. I would say $5-12k for a decent job. Really its all in what the shop digs into when sanding the van or what rust needs to be addressed as they progress.

Considering the value of syncros these days I personally decided to go all in and think its a good return on my investment.

With that being said you have other options. Depending on the body condition you could pull the glass and exterior stuff and give it a good two stage paint job for under $5k. Wont be perfect but would be a great job for a daily usable driver. If your keeping the color the same and want to avoid buying new window seals you could use lift tape. That will pull the window rubbers back a little so you can get paint under the seals and dont have to worry about paint all over your window seals.After the paint they pull the tape out and seals drop back down and covers the paint edges. Great stuff.

I would stay away from single stage personally. It has its place in the paint world but not on a syncro or any vehicle of value. It will fade pretty quickly and will not work well if you are spraying a metallic color at all due to the process. I guess of it is spending most of the time garaged you could get away with it. I actually love single stage for solid colors. Its thick and when you spray clear over it, it can be stunning but it doesn't make sense for this application in my opinion. Its great for spraying suspension and misc parts on the van, really durable you don't want to do this paint job again trust me.

Heres my 87 syncro currently, this was out of the gun never buffed yet:

Follow my thread here on the paint:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60

Heres my 87 Doka

[/img]

Man! You do some amazing work!! I'll be super stoked if I can pull off a fraction of what you have. Thanks for the input. I can't say I'm thrilled with those figures but I sure would love that outcome. Thanks for adding to my obsession.