TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:21 am

Hello fellow enthusiasts
I just bought a Sachs diaphragm pressure plate with throw out bearing and clutch. My motor already has a 9 spring pressure plate. Can anyone tell me
Which is better? Or which is
Most preferred? Please and thank you!!!!

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:27 am

I like the newer diaphragm style

Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:20 pm

9 spring is better (and NLA) for Buses, which carry heavier loads. Diaphragm is fine for Beetle.

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:03 pm

I thought they stopped making those coil-spring pressure plates back in the early 1970's.
If I could find one in decent shape, I'd switch to it instantly. Modern clutches suck, and don't last.

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:11 pm

We were buying 9 spring clutches thru J. C. Whitney up to the late 1990s.

Now getting all the core ones we can and figure on rebuilding them ourselves or finding a clutch rebuild shop that can.

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:46 pm

I'm partial to the 3-finger 9-springs. I've never had one slip due to the springs failing. I've worn several out. They ran until all the joints and pivots got bad.

Using new Sachs multi-finger diaphragm , from different sources, I've gotten what I feel is poor service. I've put on several new diaphragms between both of my cars and have only gotten between 20,000 and 50,000 miles before the springs cracked and failed. I've had 3-finger 9-springs last well over 200,000 miles.

That being said, the 3-finger 9-spring seems to take more leg pressure to activate and has a longer stroke. The diaphragms I've used (and one that I'm now using on my '69) take less leg pressure and seem to activate more quickly with less stroke.

I don't know if anyone is making or rebuilding 3-finger 9-springs, maybe some else knows. This is only my experience with these pressure plates on my '69 and '70 Bugs with the period correct collared pressure plates and swinging throw-out fork/bearing.

My brother is running I believe a '74 single side-cover trans on his '69 Bug using the sliding/tube guided throw-out bearing. Much better design. He was going to go back to the old design/trans and I talked him out of it. He seems to have had better luck with the multi-finger diaphragms lasting much longer. At least I attribute the longer life to the newer design.

Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:00 pm

I use a late-1970s/early 1980s 9-spring 3-finger pressure plate with my 1835cc engine, works great, has been on that same engine since 1986. I did have to remove the center ring when I moved that engine from my 1970 to my 1971, to match with the updated throw-out design.

Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:21 pm

I have to interject here, because most people haven't seemed to drive a diaphragm and finger clutch/3-arm back to back in the same car. Either that, or they missed the entire ergo dynamic differences.

The diaphragm pressure plate was introduced in the early seventies to much chagrin when the entire car, from pedal pad to flywheel was setup correctly. With a 3-arm style, pressure required by your left foot is smooth and almost entirely constant from first touch all the way to the floor. With a diaphragm style correctly adjusted, you will feel increasing pressure to the halfway point of pedal travel. After this point, you'll actually feel the pedal get easier to press as you continue pushing the clutch pedal down. The ergonomic difference here allows a pressure plate to have sufficient clamping force for higher-torque applications, while giving a lighter foot pedal feel at the "catch point" of the car in which it was designed. After the clutch has coupled the engine to the input shaft, your foot releases and the actual full force of the diaphragm plate is felt, but who cares because it's not exactly close to where the finesse happens?

I prefer the 3-arm style on a stock Volkswagen. That way when I feel resistance I know exactly what is going on back there. With the diaphragm style's changing resistance, there's no way of telling if the middle "detent feel" is clutch actuation or diaphragm resistance.

Robbie

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:57 pm

I prefer 9-springers myself.

You know, they did have 3-arm pressure plates that were diaphragm...

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Please excuse my "street" terminology; I am only trying to differentiate between pressure plates with and without a hyperextention relaxation of pressure.

Robbie

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:24 pm

Those 3-arm diaphragm clutches are still being sold today. I tried one a few years ago with highly
unsatisfactory results: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493075&highlight=

Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:13 am

Someone mentioned clamping force as a reason to choose the old nine Spring bus pressure plate, it's better than the sedan version but sometimes through evolution parts get better. Case in point Porsche went to the diaphragm design to handle higher performance as did Kennedy. The kennedy diaphragms are much more robust than anything Vw ever offered through Sachs or Luk. Here's just a little more info to digest.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:21 am

Ive got well over 120000 miles on my kenady diafram with zero issues.

Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:53 pm

mark tucker wrote: Ive got well over 120000 miles on my kenady diafram with zero issues.

Lern too spel !!! Or lern two tipe !!!

Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:51 pm

I too prefer the lever type.
I use a 9-spring and copperhead disk in my daily driver 2007cc, I collect the 1700lb kennedy lever ones for larger engines.

Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:42 am

Just went out and looked at some of my older items. My to my surprise I have two nine spring pressure plates with collars. So what car of mine would they work best in? 68 type 1, 73 type 1 and 73 type 1. Or does someone want to offer me something for them.

Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:50 am

That's pre IRS. The buskateers are fans of those, maybe a hipo period mid 60s sedan. Type 3 uses them too. Somebody wants them. :D

Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:51 am

Will fit your 68 bug

Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:12 pm

What kind of service life is expected from a clutch in a bug? I never hear a lot of talk about clutch change on these boards. I changed my clutch in my 2002 golf TDI at about 140000 and it still had a little meat left.

Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:22 pm

Frodge wrote: What kind of service life is expected from a clutch in a bug? I never hear a lot of talk about clutch change on these boards. I changed my clutch in my 2002 golf TDI at about 140000 and it still had a little meat left.

Just like brake shoes (or your own shoes) it all depends on how hard you are on them.

Had a step grand dad that never used the clutch pedal when still moving forward. With that expertise I would bet the clutch would look like new at 250,000 miles.

On other hand it will last a lot less if you jack rabbit start, or drag race, or likes to slip the clutch on hills instead of using the brakes as one should.

On the other hand if you are gentle on the clutch like us, you should be able to get 60,000 to 80,000 miles or more.