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Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:09 pm

Anyone know the right size and source for the good style fuel injection clamp for the fuel hose from filter to pump on a late bay?

The hose being used is the 1/2" Gates Barricade which is nearly 20mm OD.

Thanks in advance.

Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:30 pm

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-metal-hose-clamps/=13banx0

Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:48 pm

BUSBOSS wrote: Anyone know the right size and source for the good style fuel injection clamp for the fuel hose from filter to pump on a late bay?

The hose being used is the 1/2" Gates Barricade which is nearly 20mm OD.

Thanks in advance.

Curious why you're using 1/2" ID hose for the filter to pump? Ratwell says 10mm and Scott@germansupply says 11mm. 1/2" is almost 13mm.

You don't need fuel injection hose here since it's not a high pressure area.

Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:57 pm

Something tells me that the hose is pretty big. 1/2 inch ID may be correct

Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:25 pm

1/2" is correct between the filter and pump.

The part number on the fiche is N0203001 that is 11mm hose which is .433 inch. .437 is 7/16 but it is almost impossible to find that in that high quality hose. Some VW sources show it as 11.5 mm. If you consider that the difference is .067 inch - that is actually 1/32" all the way around the hose which makes very little difference as the raised portion on the plastic is larger than that. The 1/2 Barricade is 12.7mm ID.

The only sizes they make which are in that range are 3/8 (9.5mm) or 1/2 (12.7 mm).

On the FI high pressure hose they make 1/4 (6.3mm), 5/16 (8.0 mm), and 3/8 (9.5 mm).

These are 40 year old cars :) - ever buy drywall or 2x4's to match something in a 40 year old house? Trying to find anything the same size that was made in the PARTW era is a PITA. PARTW to me is Pre-Accountants Running the World.

Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:21 pm

Quote: PARTW to me is Pre-Accountants Running the World.
:)

Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:19 am

telford dorr wrote: Quote: PARTW to me is Pre-Accountants Running the World.
:)

I have no idea what that means

Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:22 am

SGKent wrote: 1/2" is correct between the filter and pump.

The part number on the fiche is N0203001 that is 11mm hose which is .433 inch. .437 is 7/16 but it is almost impossible to find that in that high quality hose. Some VW sources show it as 11.5 mm. If you consider that the difference is .067 inch - that is actually 1/32" all the way around the hose which makes very little difference as the raised portion on the plastic is larger than that. The 1/2 Barricade is 12.7mm ID.

[soapbox]
I'll just get on my soapbox again to extol the virtues of Cohline 2240 hose. The 2240.1019 model has an internal diameter of 11.5 mm, is low-permeability (suitable for bio-diesel and 100% ethanol) and has a working pressure of 10 bar (our L-Jet systems run at about 3 bar). I have a piece of this hose on my van and can attest that it is a wonderfully snug fit for the pump inlet.

Cohline 2240.1019 can be obtained from Pelican Parts for the exorbitant price of $38/meter, and they only sell it by the meter, and they do a terrible job of cutting it, so you end up having to waste about 1/2" from each end. There are also some E-Bay sellers of the stuff, but I can't speak to their reliability.
[/soapbox]

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:47 am

I'm about to replace my fuel pump so I want to make sure I use the right stuff.

I recently purchased Cohline 2122.1000 from AutohausAZ which is vulcanized cloth braided 11mm ID x 17mm OD.

http://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1124761226

From this spec sheet http://www.dieselparts.pl/cohline/AFHC_2013_Teil_2.pdf
Quote:
working pressure: 7bar
testing pressure: 20bar
bursting pressure 30bar
smallest bending radius: 70mm

Commercial fuels and fuel mixtures also E 10 fuel up to a maximum of 50 % benzoL.. from - 22 ° F up to +122 ° F

Does 122°F seem a little too low for the location of our fuel pumps?

Gates makes this hose in 7/16th

Safety Stripe® II Return Fuel Line/PCV/Evaporative Emission Control Hose
http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Fuel%20Systems.pdf
Quote:
Multi-purpose hose for use on Return Fuel Lines, PCV and EEC systems, and for fuel return hose
connections on diesel fuel injection systems. Approved for use with leaded and unleaded gasoline,
diesel and gasoline blends of ethanol (E85), methanol and ethers (up to the legal limits allowed
by the EPA).

• Spiral reinforced construction.
• Nitrile tube.
• NBR-PVC cover.
• Oil resistant cover resists the effects of high heat and ozone found in engine compartments.
• Meets SAE 30R6 and 30R7.
• Vacuum rating of 24 In./Hg for sizes less than 1⁄2” I.D., and 10 In./Hg for sizes 1⁄2” to 3⁄4” I.D.
at ambient temperatures. Packaging: See table.
• Temperature rating: -40°F to 257°F (-40°C to 125°C) with gasoline blends

WARNING: Do not use for pressure lines on fuel injected engines or for cooling system applications.

Use Multi-Port Injection (MPI) hose for fuel injection applications.
(Product Type 4219 XL)

Intended for use with fuels where MTBE concentrations are no greater than 15% by volume.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:19 am

I don't know about that hose, have no experience with it. Gates Barricade is the only CARB II approved hose in California. CARB tested it and many other hoses, and determined that it has the lowest leakage of any hoses. Apparently the molecules of our modern fuels are so small that they weep thru most modern hoses. The fuels are run mostly in cars that have inches of hose on mostly steel fuel lines where as older cars had meters of fuel line. Gates is no slouch when it comes to rubber products. There hoses and belts are some of the best in the world.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:58 am

SGKent wrote: I don't know about that hose, have no experience with it. Gates Barricade is the only CARB II approved hose in California. CARB tested it and many other hoses, and determined that it has the lowest leakage of any hoses. Apparently the molecules of our modern fuels are so small that they weep thru most modern hoses. The fuels are run mostly in cars that have inches of hose on mostly steel fuel lines where as older cars had meters of fuel line. Gates is no slouch when it comes to rubber products. There hoses and belts are some of the best in the world.

Alright. Gates Barricade it is!

The only 1/2" I.D. one I see is the first one listed here - http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Fuel%20Systems.pdf

That look right? Napa has a couple in stock nearby.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:35 am

BayCreamPuff wrote: SGKent wrote: I don't know about that hose, have no experience with it. Gates Barricade is the only CARB II approved hose in California. CARB tested it and many other hoses, and determined that it has the lowest leakage of any hoses. Apparently the molecules of our modern fuels are so small that they weep thru most modern hoses. The fuels are run mostly in cars that have inches of hose on mostly steel fuel lines where as older cars had meters of fuel line. Gates is no slouch when it comes to rubber products. There hoses and belts are some of the best in the world.

Alright. Gates Barricade it is!

The only 1/2" I.D. one I see is the first one listed here - http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Fuel%20Systems.pdf

That look right? Napa has a couple in stock nearby.

I bought a foot of it from O'Reillys but Napa shows it now too. O'Reillys had both sizes. The 1/2" had to come from the Stockton store overnight. Be sure to use the high pressure on the FI side of the pump if you replace that hose too.

if you like to research, look up the fuel line standards and ethanol. There are many threads here. Standards 30R6 and 30R7 are not considered safe any longer for ethanol fuels. 30R9 and 30R14 are ethanol safe and searching those standards will yield the most results. Basically 30R9 allows 15 grams per square meter of fuel to evaporate (called permeation) thru the hose DAILY. Barricade 30R14 allows only 1 gram per square meter permeation daily.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:43 am

Get it at OReilly's. The Fremont Blvd store in Fremont has a brand new made in 2016 25ft roll. I know because they ordered it for me.

Any suggestions for sourcing the real rounded (no bite) fuel injection clamps?

I didn't see them on the McMaster site.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:51 am

BelMetric has the crimp style. MCMaster had the screw style last time I looked.

This company makes them too http://www.fluidlinecomponents.com/files/FLC_page_060.pdf

or

http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Crimp_Type_Hose_Clamps_s/669.htm

or

http://www.new-line.com/clamps/pinch-clamps

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:52 am

SGKent wrote: I don't know about that hose, have no experience with it. Gates Barricade is the only CARB II approved hose in California. CARB tested it and many other hoses, and determined that it has the lowest leakage of any hoses.
I'm not saying that Gates Barricade doesn't do what they claim it does. I'm sure it's wonderful, magical hose. My point is that it is only available in inch sizes that aren't a particularly good match to our cars. Most people here seem to be okay with making the necessary fitment compromise in order to get the benefit of the Barricade goodness. I'm not, and I'm simply trying to get out the message that there are better-fitting alternatives that perform equally well.

Would you happen to have a link to the CARB hose test data?

SGKent wrote: Gates is no slouch when it comes to rubber products. Their hoses and belts are some of the best in the world.
Those two statements apply equally well to Cohline, which has been in the business of supplying hose products to German manufacturers in a variety of industries for more than 80 years. If you purchase an OEM hose for your Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes, odds are that it will be a Cohline product.

As far as clamps go, Oetiker ear clamps are also available from Amazon. Here's a link for "Oetiker 167 series" for the regular-width clamps, or "Oetiker 154 series" for a better high-pressure clamp. Note that the sizing of Oetiker clamps can be confusing, because each size covers a usable clamping range, and the ranges from one size to the next overlap. To get the ideal size of ear clamp for a given application, you do need to do a bit of experimenting with the actual hose and fitting you'll be using.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:50 am

SlowLane wrote: SGKent wrote: I don't know about that hose, have no experience with it. Gates Barricade is the only CARB II approved hose in California. CARB tested it and many other hoses, and determined that it has the lowest leakage of any hoses.
I'm not saying that Gates Barricade doesn't do what they claim it does. I'm sure it's wonderful, magical hose. My point is that it is only available in inch sizes that aren't a particularly good match to our cars. Most people here seem to be okay with making the necessary fitment compromise in order to get the benefit of the Barricade goodness. I'm not, and I'm simply trying to get out the message that there are better-fitting alternatives that perform equally well.

Would you happen to have a link to the CARB hose test data?

SGKent wrote: Gates is no slouch when it comes to rubber products. Their hoses and belts are some of the best in the world.
Those two statements apply equally well to Cohline, which has been in the business of supplying hose products to German manufacturers in a variety of industries for more than 80 years. If you purchase an OEM hose for your Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes, odds are that it will be a Cohline product.

As far as clamps go, Oetiker ear clamps are also available from Amazon. Here's a link for "Oetiker 167 series" for the regular-width clamps, or "Oetiker 154 series" for a better high-pressure clamp. Note that the sizing of Oetiker clamps can be confusing, because each size covers a usable clamping range, and the ranges from one size to the next overlap. To get the ideal size of ear clamp for a given application, you do need to do a bit of experimenting with the actual hose and fitting you'll be using.

google is your friend. I don't have the link bookmarked but if you search 30R14, 30R9 and low permeation you will find many articles. There are probably 25 or 30 threads here on the Samba already about it.

from Gates:

Quote: Two feet of general-purpose hose permeates up to one gallon of hydrocarbon vapors into the atmosphere each year. Compare that to only two tablespoons of permeation with superior Barricade® Fuel Line Hose.

http://74.63.161.211/downloads/BarricadeBrochure.pdf

From Continental on the other most common hose used in our buses:

Quote: Fuel Injection Hose SAE 30R9

Application:

Designed specifically for auto and truck fuel injection systems. Continental Elite® SAE 30R9 is CARB approved (C-U-06-011) with a maximum fuel permeation of 15 gm/m2/day at 40˚C.

Specific Fuel:

Gasoline, ethanol extended gasoline, oxidized sour gas, diesel fuel, biodiesel, lubrication oil.

I did some research on Cohline and according to their catalog their fuel hose is NBR on the inside. NBR is a medium permeation hose meaning a much higher amount of fuel would evaporate thru it. I could not find a low evap hose in their product catalog.

.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Search ABA Clamps.
Used them recently, they are superior.

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:25 pm

BusDepot has various size ABA Fuel Injectipn clamps for a good price.

http://www.busdepot.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=clamps&dir=desc&order=default_sort_order

Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:03 pm

BUSBOSS wrote: Any suggestions for sourcing the real rounded (no bite) fuel injection clamps?

The gates 1/2 ID hose has an OD of 19.8mm.

After spending the last hour scouring the internet it looks like there aren't many options in the US for the 18-20mm fuel injection style clamps.

This site has it for $0.33 each, but has a minimum order of $20
http://www.hcl-clamping.com/Mini-Screw-or-Petrol-Pipe-Clip-Mollfam-P16 (code MC-19-W1)

I also found this spring style on ebay. Says to use 17mm for 17mm-20mm OD.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-0-67-inch-Spring-Ba...1955566129

Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:47 pm

I can attest to Gates being a great brand. A few years ago a car customer asked me to change his serpentine belt on his Hyundai. I used the Autozone house brand. He brought the car back because it squeaked. I returned the belt and it squeaked. Then I went to O'reilly's and got a Gates belt. Problem solved.

When I buy hoses and belts I always try and buy Gates. I've bought rolls of Gates Barricade fuel line on Amazon. Fits well on fuel injected buses but I'm having trouble finding the right size for the carb version.