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Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:07 pm

Is there another company that makes a complete hardware kit besides Empi? Using a tourque wrench and even after chasing threads I've stripped out nuts on a couple of builds.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:45 pm

Ac.net has hardware kits.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:51 pm

Glenn wrote: Ac.net has hardware kits.

Thanks Glenn!

Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:16 pm

I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables?

Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:40 pm

Muffler clamps are notoriously easy to break. Poor quality and the overstressing of the little 10mm nuts and bolts don't help. Make sure everything fits well before torqueing... no burrs or bent parts to have to force.

I use the smaller copper exhaust manifold nuts. Same caution applies-- make sure you aren't using nut torque to deform parts into fitting... file/bend flanges flat and square first.

Main and head nuts are special types and should not be overtorqued, despite the common temptation.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:12 pm

jfats808 wrote: I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables?

Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock. Getting ready to do another engine and was wondering if there was an alternative.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:57 pm

KILLERWATT wrote:
Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock.

Why use a locknut? It's an engine not a roof rack

I would recommend flanged nuts, which are far stronger, no washer needed.
https://www.belmetric.com/flat-bottom-flange-nut-c-3_48_59_1294/?zenid=7o5dk026uct80vqa0j5mqd16v1

Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:55 pm

KILLERWATT wrote: jfats808 wrote: I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables?

Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock. Getting ready to do another engine and was wondering if there was an alternative.

You can continue buying the empi kit and replace nylon locknuts with std 8.8 hex nuts found at most hardware stores or supply shops. Simple. Maybe someone will have an alternative kit available. But I tell you I have yet to see one stripped nylon locknut happen to me on those kits with std torque applied. I guess they can go either way. Chinese metal..

Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:28 am

A little bit of anti-seize goes a long way in preventing galling.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:58 am

A few 100 count boxes of m8 and m10 nuts and bolts don't cost much and go a very long way. You quickly see that the hardware "kits" aren't really a deal.
Like Modok mentioned, flange nuts are great, and many places carry the small wrench size brass m8 for exhaust studs and such.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:25 pm

Bell Metric also sells the thick 8mm washers for head studs, which can be used for other things too. You can get flanged nuts for 6 main the case studs.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:34 pm

modok wrote: KILLERWATT wrote:
Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock.

Why use a locknut? It's an engine not a roof rack

I would recommend flanged nuts, which are far stronger, no washer needed.
https://www.belmetric.com/flat-bottom-flange-nut-c-3_48_59_1294/?zenid=7o5dk026uct80vqa0j5mqd16v1

That's a good question what people never ask or think about is the drag or interference caused by a self locking fastener which will alter torque settings.. You don't need special fasteners you need to use green loctite on stock hardware. Oh I'm sorry that doesn't have a cool factor does it.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:56 pm

The purpose of a locknut is so that it cam be loose and not vibrate off entirely.

If your case bolts are loose, or fall off entirely, it makes no difference, both=fail. So what's the point? there is none. As far as the case is concerned loose is loose, and as far as oil and air leaks are concerned finger tight is not any different than it fell off. Locktite is also no needed, what would it do? nothing.

Now, for some things locknuts are good. For the one nut inside the case that holds the oil pickup, THAT is the right place for a locknut, because it would prevent the nut falling off and getting sucked into the oil pump should it become loose. It does have a high chance of coming loose too. Or, just use a bolt instead of a stud. For the engine mounts inside the bellhousing, good idea. Seatbelts should have locknuts/lockwashers, any single shear joint probably should have a locknut/lockwasher. The cooling tinshould have locknuts/lockwasehrs, ect. Right nut for the right job.
If you have any questions about hardware or the precise fitting of things in holes just ask this nut :wink:

Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:25 pm

modok wrote: The purpose of a locknut is so that it cam be loose and not vibrate off entirely.

If your case bolts are loose, or fall off entirely, it makes no difference, both=fail. So what's the point? there is none. As far as the case is concerned loose is loose, and as far as oil and air leaks are concerned finger tight is not any different than it fell off. Locktite is also no needed, what would it do? nothing.

Now, for some things locknuts are good. For the one nut inside the case that holds the oil pickup, THAT is the right place for a locknut, because it would prevent the nut falling off and getting sucked into the oil pump should it become loose. It does have a high chance of coming loose too. Or, just use a bolt instead of a stud. For the engine mounts inside the bellhousing, good idea. Seatbelts should have locknuts/lockwashers, any single shear joint probably should have a locknut/lockwasher. The cooling tinshould have locknuts/lockwasehrs, ect. Right nut for the right job.
If you have any questions about hardware or the precise fitting of things in holes just ask this nut :wink:

Factory hardware always worked for me along with the green loctite. The drag created by self locking fasteners alters torque readings that's a fact.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:09 pm

the bright zinc plating is actually a larger factor, way more difference than the nylon drag.
New bright plated may have 25%less friction than bare steel at first, but after a few uses, it wears off and can be ignored.
If you use brand new bright plated locknuts on the rocker stud, and try 20 ft-lb, I bet it will strip out. The torque it takes to turn a locknut is very small. It's easy to test.....because you have a torque wrench

Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:42 pm

KILLERWATT wrote: Glenn wrote: Ac.net has hardware kits.

Thanks Glenn!

The pic on aircooled.net is the same one I've seen for the Empi kit on other sites.

The flange nuts are a good idea. Thanks!

Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:00 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Beetle-Cylinder-Head-An...43c74acfa0

Also sells one for the 8mm.
Best one out there IMO, has the thick head + case washers

Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:07 pm

CSEBug wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Beetle-Cylinder-Head-An...43c74acfa0

Also sells one for the 8mm.
Best one out there IMO, has the thick head + case washers

I agree. That is the kit sold by Century Distributors (wholesale), if you know someone who orders from them its worth every penny.

Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:23 pm

Our local shop turned me on to this source. All hardware for the entire car including the engine.