TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:38 am

Hey there fellow bug enthusiast,

I am reaching a point on my build where I need to decide which pedals to get so I can start fabricating the mount for them.

I have already decided on reverse swing for my application.
Now I know that I will be purchasing the CNC cutting brake for my bug, and I would like to use the CNC reverse mount pedals. It would be nice to have them all from the same mfg. However if I add up the brake and clutch pedals from CNC it will total $577.00 from pacific customs.

If I go with Wilwood I can get a reverse hanging pedal kit from Speedway Motors for $319.00
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-Reverse-Swing-Triple-Master-Cylinder-Pedal-6-2-1,1959.html

Now the CNC clutch pedal comes with the slave and the Wilwood does not, so that is about a $75 saving on the CNC. But we are still looking at about a $180.00 difference.

I see most buggies on here built with the CNC pedals so I'm wondering if I'm missing something here.

Right now I'm thinking about getting the Wilwood pedals with the CNC cutting brakes. But before I make the buy I wanted to see if anybody could shed some light on why I should stick with the CNC. Or if there is another brand I should be considering.

The bug I'm building is a run of the mill Baja Bug with medium travel and an air cooled motor. It will be disk brakes on all four corners as well. In the future it might get a water cooled motor.

Thanks,
Mike

Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:57 am

I've bought Wilwood before and I'd do it again because the company will never go anywhere. Which is something I cant say for VW based companies. If you ever need new seals down the road you'll be able to get them. Not to say CNC isnt available. I was tempted to get those inverted pedals for my woods buggy because I'm pretty much sitting on the floor and I have a prosthetic foot so I thought it'd be easier to manipulate something like that. Looks a little more thought out than the floor mounted types too.

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:51 pm

CNC (Chuck Neal Co.) has been around for a few decades. Chuck may well have retired by now. So I can't guarantee the company will be around forever. But then Wilwood is no better guarantee either and is at least as old of a company. In modern times, if a company makes a good product, others will buy the company and drive it into the dirt, take the money and run. So I don't consider a company's past as an indicator of its future.

They are definitely 2 of the companies at the top of my list for automotive hydraulics, pedal assemblies, etc. Tilton is the other. My son just said he would opt for Tilton. I've not observed quality issues with product from either company. CNC is defintely more VW-offroad-oriented than Wilwood.

Why don't you throw up some links so we can see what you've been shopping to see if we can suggest anything different?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:38 am

Thanks for the advise fellas,

I did end up ordering the Wilwood assembly.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-Reverse-Swing-Triple-Master-Cylinder-Pedal-5-1-1,34042.html

I think there are three things that swayed me to them.

1. Price
2. I could get the Wilwoods in 5-1, the lowest the CNC went to was 6-1.
3. The Wilwoods come with a mount that has all three cylinders together. With the CNC the brake hangers and clutch hanger is separate.

I have a tight area where I plan to mount them so I was looking to stay compact. I figure with as light as the bug should be I should be able to get by with the 5-1. I guess I'll see when it's on the road. I went with .75 bore on all three for now. That will help the most with the short ratio. If needed I can go bigger. This bug has disk all around.
They should be here Wendesday and I figure it will take a week or two to get them all mounted up. I'll post good pictures when done and tell you guys what I think.

Later,
Mike

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:54 pm

So I was finally able to mount the pedals.
Bear in mind I don't have the CNC pedals and it will be some time before I actually use the Wilwoods. So I'm not sure if this will be helpful or not but here is what I thought of the pedals.

I suppose the best part is that the Wilwoods pedal assembly is one piece. So you only need to make mounts once. With the CNC pedals the brake and clutch were separate. Having to make only one mount guaranteed that everything would be straight and even.

The pedal hangers had multiple places to mount to. This gives you options depending on what your chassis has to work with. I bought a really nice bulkhead mount that looked easy to attach to. However as it turned out the area under my dash was really tight. So I had to use something different to mount to.

As for quality of the hangers and cylinders they seem really nice. Very clean machining, and everything assembled easily. The balance bar is smooth and seems like it should work well. They sell a remote knob for adjusting on the fly which I will get. Remember I have not plumbed this yet so I don't really know how good the guts of the master cylinders are.

The only part I don't like is the caps for the reservoirs have a spring clip to hold them on. I would rather the screw mounts like the CNC has. Especially when it comes time to bleed. CNC sells a cap you can install and pressurize to help in bleeding. That option would be nice for Wilwood.
Maybe I'll make something when that time comes.

Thus far I would say for the money I paid for them they seem nice. Hope this helps someone out.

Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:54 am

How do you get your steel that clean?!
Jeff

Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:01 am

When you get it home from the supply house wipe it down with WD-4D to get the process oil off of it. Then wipe it down with denatured alcohol. After this it should be so clean handling it will only get your hands a little dirty.

Now do your fabbing with it but wear gloves and keep things clean.

After welding clean with chipper and wire brush. When clean as possible clean with a wire wheel in a drill. The drill is what really gets it clean.

*wear safety glasses when chipping and wire brushing. :shock:
*if you live in a humid environment don't clean off the process oil until you are ready to use the steel.
*the tube in those photos is DOM. It's been my experience DOM looks a lot cleaner/brighter than electriweld and chromoly.

Hope that helps! :D

Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:52 pm

Good advice.

But Hmmmmmmm...
Quote:

...
*the tube in those photos is DOM.

There appear to be an awful lot of seams showing on that DOM. It looks a bit different from the DOM I was fabricating with a couple days ago.

Don't take this harsh. I'm not trying to piss you off (even though I might be doing just that right now). I actually respect the work you show and what you have to say. Just gotta razz ya a little.

8)

Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:24 am

dustymojave wrote: Good advice.

But Hmmmmmmm...

There appear to be an awful lot of seams showing on that DOM. It looks a bit different from the DOM I was fabricating with a couple days ago.

Don't take this harsh. I'm not trying to piss you off (even though I might be doing just that right now). I actually respect the work you show and what you have to say. Just gotta razz ya a little.

8)

Yes sir you are correct, I suppose I should have been more clear on that. :oops:

All the rectangular and square is electriweld, any of the tube that is not needed for ultimate strength is electriweld.

For the 1" I use the DOM in .095 and the electriweld in 14g.

So the tube in these photos coming down to the pedal assembly is DOM. Because in my little brain this is carrying most of the load. Mainly where the flat bar is welded to it that actually carries the assembly bolts. The horizontal tube that just gives stability in my mind carries far less load therefore I made it out of cheaper thinner tube to save weight.

All the 1 1/2" that I used on the roll cage and engine cage is .095 DOM. So to me I feel like the whole buggy is DOM. However in this little photo it looks like I barely use any DOM.

So what I originally meant was that when I get the steel from the steel house and wipe it with WD-4D the DOM is already bright and clean where the Electriweld requires a lot more cleaning with the denatured alcohol to get looking like the DOM. :lol:

Dusty.......Thanks for pulling all the details out of me, hopefully someone else can read this and it might help them with their build. 8)

Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:48 am

I should have attached this photo and then boasted about how clean DOM is and anything else is below me. :lol: 8)
Good luck finding an electriweld in there (except for the square tube).

Mike.

Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:40 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually the ERW square makes good sense for the application and I'm not putting it down. I personally would use ERW round for the bumpers. No need for DOM there.

8)