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Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:30 am

Hi;

In my local store sale two Permatex form a gasket sealant alternatives.......What is recommended for seal the case?

1.- Fast-drying, hard-setting sealant

2.- Slow-drying, non-hardening sealant

Thanks

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:41 am

neither :shock: but if you just have to use that crap... the non hardning.well either will do for a little while..... curlyt or 518 gellseal or halomar or...... something a little more modern that has bee updated and works and last.

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:44 am

use Curil T

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:46 am

Yep, if there's no other choice get the #2, but there's far better products that will prevent future problems available now.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654726

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:53 am

ok, In my last engine rebuilts used Yamabond, but no longer sold in my city, I think anyway use Permatex 2 are better to RTV silicone?

Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:43 pm

Depends how it is applied. If you follow the directions on the tube, it won't work worth a hoot. Even putting a bead down and torquing the case isn't great. That said, I did use Permatex ultra copper on my case halves, but I had a different method of applying it that raygreenwood taught me. If you really want to know what that was all about I can put up some pictures if you want.

If you can get Permatex products, see if you can get their motoseal. It is made for motorcycles, etc, where precision metal to metal contact is present. It is very similar to the Yamabond you were using.

Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:06 pm

gell seal. = locktight 518. or OMC ( outboard motor corpration) case sealent. yamaha has thise own yamaha bond, I think we used #4 but not sure. it too can get messy and starts skining over as soon as it's out of the tube.
the locktight says messy untill it has no air as in between two peices and torqued down. so you can apply it and torque the case then wipe off the exsess withen the next year or so...., just dont do a partial torque then come back the next day to do the rest as it will of setup and your bearing clearances will be off!! and loose in the case and possiable case warpage! so make sure you want to finaly seal it up and do it.
silocone is good for exhaust and cylinder base&cylinder base shims. thats about all it should be used for on a vw.. never over apply any sealent as it will just squish out and in and then clog your oil pickup and kill your motor. Ive pulled motors appart that had the crank gallys packed with silycone , no way for oil to get to the bearings. so whatever sealer you choose to use use it sparingly.

Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:10 pm

Vanapplebomb wrote: Depends how it is applied. If you follow the directions on the tube, it won't work worth a hoot. Even putting a bead down and torquing the case isn't great. That said, I did use Permatex ultra copper on my case halves, but I had a different method of applying it that raygreenwood taught me. If you really want to know what that was all about I can put up some pictures if you want.

If you can get Permatex products, see if you can get their motoseal. It is made for motorcycles, etc, where precision metal to metal contact is present. It is very similar to the Yamabond you were using.

Yes....whether the formulation is old or new......how you use it is 90% of the game....and it can be different for each product by a little or a lot.

Also.....Permatex for startes......has much more "modern" and sophisticated formulations than the old forma-gasket 1 and 2....both adhesion, temperature and oil and solvent resistance.

Also look carefully in the tech data sheets for many of these products....and you will find notes for hardness or durometer of the cured product which makes a big difference in how an where it should be used.

Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:20 pm

Permatex #2, #3, 300, and "aviation sealant"
are all the same thing, but slightly thicker or thinner.

To seal the case split, use permatex 300 or permatex aviation, or hylomar blue.

Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:19 pm

really apreciated!!

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:11 pm

Permatex rtv black ultra oil resistance?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:21 pm

pablovent wrote: Permatex rtv black ultra oil resistance?

Just about the best I have seen among any RTV products.
Among the "Ultra" series....black is the most oil resistant, The gray is very oil resistant but has a higher durometer (harder for high torque areas). The copper is about the same as black in hardness, almost as oil resistant...but has about 100* higher temp range.

Continuous usage emps:
Black: -65 to 500F
Gray: -65 to 500F
Copper: -65 to 600F

Ray

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:29 pm

but still not so recommended to seal the case?or not?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:44 pm

RTV is the wrong product to use to seal case halfs.

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:51 pm

[email protected] wrote: RTV is the wrong product to use to seal case halfs.

Totally depends on how it is used. The way 98% use it.....gooping it on with a brush or their finger.....you are correct. ...its the wrong product to use.

By tuat same token.......just because an adhesive based product is thinner, spreads easier snd shrinks as it dries....so those 98% who use a finger or a brush can't goop themselves into destruction.....does nkt mean its the BEST material to use.

Ray

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:02 pm

Yamabond/Hondabond etc.... are RTV's too aren't they? As Ray says RTV will work but it has to go on in a thin even coat, and don't let it harden fully before closing up the halves or it'll keep them from fully mating up.

One way I apply it to some things is with a squeegee with small notches filed in it (like a miniature linoleum adhesive spreader), that way it's a consistant thickness and has room to squish between the rows. A bit of coarse tooth hackswaw blade would work too if you weren't afraid of scratching things.

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:16 pm

I like Gasgacinch for the case halves, for a leak proof seal.

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:44 pm

What about the silk thread trick, does any body do it on their VW's?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:48 pm

Howard 111 wrote: I like Gasgacinch for the case halves, for a leak proof seal.

I have used Gasgacinch for years, never a leak

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:03 pm

Vanapplebomb wrote: Depends how it is applied. If you follow the directions on the tube, it won't work worth a hoot. Even putting a bead down and torquing the case isn't great. That said, I did use Permatex ultra copper on my case halves, but I had a different method of applying it that raygreenwood taught me. If you really want to know what that was all about I can put up some pictures if you want.

If you can get Permatex products, see if you can get their motoseal. It is made for motorcycles, etc, where precision metal to metal contact is present. It is very similar to the Yamabond you were using.

I'd love pics if you would