TheSamba.com :: View topic - Super Beetle Vert Fuel Injection Issues from sitting

Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:36 pm

I have a 77 convertible beetle that has been sitting in a garage since the early 90s. It only has 48,000 documented miles. The car is in really good condition. My only concern is the fuel injection system. It was parked in the early 90s when the owner passed away. the fuel tank and system was completely dry. I cleaned it out and added fresh gas. I put a battery in it and the engine rotated but did not start. It wasn't getting fuel so I replaced the fuel pump. I now have gas but it still doesn't start. I have spark. I assume the injectors aren't working.

I have all the records for the car. Looking through them I see a recurrent problem the person was having with it starting in 1982 all the way up until its last service in 1994. The owner complained of a random rough idle. Each time the dealer made a note that they didn't have that problem duplicated for them so I assume it was never resolved.

It also has AC which I plan on keeping. I assume the Fuel injection worked well with the Ac loads where a carb wouldn't compensate. I have rebuilt countless 60s and early 70s vws but this is my first fuel injected one.

I would really like to keep it as original as possible. I don't want to convert it to carb but I also don't want to waste money on a lost cause either. How likely is it that this fuel injection system is resurrectable ?

Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:50 pm

Have you tried some starting fluid? That will at least tell you if it will run. The you can start to troubleshoot the FI.

Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:03 pm

EDITED...

I would on rare occasion use starting fluid on a big block Dodge, but I would be very cautious using it on the boxer engine. I just feel these engines are not designed to withstand the explosive properties of that. You can accomplish the same effect by squirting some gasoline into the air intake plenum forward of the air flow meter, not after. But it won't run more than a second or two, if at all. The air fuel mixture, fuel rail pressure, fuel pump relay, electronic control module, etc. etc. all play a hard, intertwined game of precision operation and are not quickly fooled by introducing fuel by hand. Personally, the only thing I would verify at this point is if the engine is mechanically sound. If you have a solid engine, then renovating the fuel injection system to its minimum operating standard will likely give you years of service.

I have no experience with the Type 1 / Beetle fuel injection. But I was very impressed with my 1977 California emissions fuel injected bus. I bet you have basically the same system, mine was the Bosch L-Jetronic. If you are willing to stop putting money and parts in it right now, and start becoming intimately familiar with each and every part of the fuel injection system, you too will enjoy it. Unlike early Type 1 engines that we can dick around with and keep running decenty, the magic carpet of fuel injection is clearly an earned ride.

Of course you will do all the basics as time and money permits, like change out every single fuel line with Ethanol-rated fuel injection hose and proper fuel injection hose clamps. You should plan on replacing all rubber seals and grommets, gaskets and breather hoses that even have a chance of being cracked.

I say it like that, because if you are like me, you are feeling anxious to get it running. L Jet is intolerant of this thinking. The components of the fuel injection must all work as intended, no slackers! L jet is also deeply intolerant of vacuum leaks, loose ground connections of any type and a fully charged battery is also important for the electronic control module, fuel pump, injectors and ignition.

Most of the fuel injection parts can be found, many of them new and a whole shitload of these parts in the classifieds as people become easily defeated and toss it all in favor of cantankerous, sputtering dual carbs that they constantly dick with anyway. :lol: Sarcasm intended!

If you have the Bentley manual for your bug, you should have a very good section covering fuel injection. Read it thoroughly, locate on the car the parts it talks about, then also use the Samba search engine for each part to discover the common troubleshooting tips and usual problems with each part.

Seek out the Ratwell website and you will find a treasure trove of solid experience and knowledge based on the late 1970's bus fuel injection.

The air conditioning on buses was Dealer installed, but I cannot speak for the Type 1 set-up.

Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Thanks.

Yes. With a little gas down the throttle body it fired up for a few seconds.

Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:09 pm

Remove the air filter from the housing, turn the ignition switch to on. Then get a dowel about 8-12 inches long, and gently slide it towards the air vane inside the air flow meter housing. When you start to move the vane with the dowel, listen to hear the fuel pump relay pick up. The fuel pump relay is commonly called the double relay.

Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:13 pm

Add some Star Tron to the high octane fuel.

Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:45 am

The L-Jetronic FI systems are so simple. You really need to take the entire thing apart, clean everything and the injectors and put it back together with new hoses and clamps. Check the stickies section in this forum for more information.

The L-Jetronic systems are Air - or in German - Luft (thus the L in L-Jetronic) controlled. So the intake system has to be 110% sealed up. This means the intake manifold boots, the S boot, the long hose to the oil filler tube, the injector seals, the air plenum seal, all need to be perfectly sealed up for the beast to be happy.

Fuel pressure is controlled by a simple fuel pressure mechanism, mounted on the front of the engine firewall, in an impossible to reach place up, underneath the right heater box. Just change it. You can't go wrong. Save the old one.

Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:05 pm

Check the wiring and connections at the injector resistor pack too.

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:30 pm

I have 78 SB convert which sat every winter and would not start every spring because the points got rusty. Switched to Pertronix elec ignition kit, cut the rotor down to size with a hacksaw, and never had that problem again!

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:30 pm

I have 78 SB convert which sat every winter and would not start every spring because the points got rusty. Switched to Pertronix elec ignition kit, cut the rotor down to size with a hacksaw, and never had that problem again!

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:01 pm

The Orange Bentley Manual has a good section on troubleshooting the stock injection. You are going to be fighting issues with parts going bad from age, not use, so the mileage thing can't have too much emphasis put on it. Do yourself a favor of replacing EVERYTHING hydraulic in the brake system as well. I helped a customer get a 77 Standard with 15,000 miles get running after being in storage for 25 years. He almost destroyed it while driving it after the master cylinder leaked out all of the brake fluid.

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:19 pm

I revived a 79 that sat for 15 years on the Gulf of Mexico in South Alabama. I tried to get it to start but it would turn over but would not start. I started doing a thorough inspection of the air system first. I found the AMF had chaffed into the boot going into the throttle body. So the engine was sucking unmetered air. I replace the boot and cranked but ran rough. So I took the advice of several Samba members and replaced the fuel lines and injectors and it ran a better but not well. I got to looking into the engine electrical harness and discovered that the locking mechanism within the connectors had rusted away from the salt air. I had the harness rebuilt and have never looked back. The system is not hard to understand just takes a little time to learn it.

Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:05 am

Thanks, got it running. Runing rough but running. It quickly developed a fuel leak at one injector so I am going to replace it next week and see what happens. Thanks

Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:24 am

Great. Make sure all the fuel line are connected properly. Mine wouldn't start and that's what it turned out to be. '77 std sdn. Now it runs like a dream. Nice engine.

Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:54 am

Do yourself a favor and send all 4 injectors off to somebody like cruzinperformance or witchunter and have them all cleaned and calibrated. They will come back with new injector seals and new fuel lines. About $100 do do all 4.

Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:29 pm

I pulled all the injectors and I'm pretty sure all of them are good except for the short rubber braided line going to them. I hate to buy four new injectors or even send them off to be redone but I cant determine a good way to get the crimp off the injector to replace the line! I have another fuel injection beetle engine that was given to me which is bad but the injectors in it have regular clamps that would be easy to remove however those injectors most likely are not good due to being out in the weather for years.

Is there a safe way to remove those crimps to enable the line to be replaced?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:53 pm

62transport wrote: Is there a safe way to remove those crimps to enable the line to be replaced?
Split the hose under the collar with a pointy xacto knife or split the collar with a dremel and use a clamp in it's place (real FI clamp, no worm gear ones).

Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:02 am

you can cut the ferrule off with a pair of diagonal cutters, pull off the hose and reinstall with a hose clamp....but...if the vehicle has been sitting that long you're much better off with new or rebuilt injectors...just cause they're firing doesnt mean they're shooting the proper amount of fuel ....they could be partially restricted with rust or varnish....later when you're trying to troubleshoot the lean condition that makes it backfire and break the flap in the airbox you'll wish you changed them in the first place

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:45 pm

Okay that's done. Thanks for all your help!
Next thing I'm trying to figure out. The picture I'm posting isn't my car but it has the part I'm missing. Circled in red. What is it? Is it required to run right? Like I said mine is completely missing and the wiring harness to it looks like it got caught in the belt.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:48 pm