TheSamba.com :: View topic - Does it really make a difference which condenser you run?

Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:43 pm

I got a Bosch 02086 condenser in a tuneup kit a couple years back. Most vendors seem to sell this condenser as a suitable replacement for just about any bug (or distributor) ever made. Since it was new, I replaced the old condenser off my AE autostick distributor with it and have been running it since; however it is noticeably smaller than my old one:

(My old condenser doesn't have a part # but as far as I know it is the 02039 that originally came on the autostick distributor.)

Does it really make any difference which one I run??

Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:08 pm

I just run bosch brand condensers.

And get the correct Bosch part# for the distributor you have.

Keep in mind Bosch makes changes over the years so the condenser may look different in length etc..

Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:16 pm

I once installed the wrong Bosch condenser in my Bosch 034, and it ran fine--for a while. A few months later, I was having running issues. The timing mark would jump all over the place while trying to time with a timing light; I had backfiring at idle, etc. The motor acted like it was running on fewer than 4 cylinders. The condenser wasn't that old (only a few months and a few hundred miles), So I didn't suspect that part. It was a real mindbender, until I installed the correct Bosch condenser.

So, from my experience, I'd definitely say, yes. I found out the hard way why VW had different condensers for different distributors.

Tim

Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:19 pm

Mr.Duncan wrote: I just run bosch brand condensers.

And get the correct Bosch part# for the distributor you have.

Keep in mind Bosch makes changes over the years so the condenser may look different in length etc..

AAhh--
doing a bit more research I see that the 02086 is apparently just the stock replacement condenser for the 009. So never mind.
I think the larger (older) condenser I have is indeed the correct one for my AE distributor, but since the part number on it has worn off just to be safe I'll go ahead and order a new replacement 02039. Thx

Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:30 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote: I once installed the wrong Bosch condenser in my Bosch 034, and it ran fine--for a while. A few months later, I was having running issues. The timing mark would jump all over the place while trying to time with a timing light; I had backfiring at idle, etc. The motor acted like it was running on fewer than 4 cylinders. The condenser wasn't that old (only a few months and a few hundred miles), So I didn't suspect that part. It was a real mindbender, until I installed the correct Bosch condenser.

So, from my experience, I'd definitely say, yes. I found out the hard way why VW had different condensers for different distributors.

Tim

This sounds suspiciously like the issues I have been having lately, mentioned in another thread.

OK now another question--

Old Volks Home says the correct condenser for my AE autostick distributor is Bosch 02039.
Bosch tuneup chart says it's 02054.

Which one do I run?? Really tired of the conflicting info about my AE distributor, including the correct condenser, or whether it's supposed to have an SVDA or DVDA canister attached. :roll:

Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 am

How's the pattern on the scope?

While today a scantool is used to monitor and diagnose, an oscilloscope was a device used to analyze and understand the ignition systems of days past.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:28 am

How to tell if the condenser is a match for the coil: The points don't pit. I can't remember which, it's hell getting old :wink: but if the movable point 'half' is pitted the condenser doesn't have enough microfarads of capacitance for the coil, or is the other way around, the fixed point 'half'? Nevertheless, that's the job of the condenser, 'absorb' some of the 'discharge' of the coil so that the points don't arc and cause pitting.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:04 am

DeathTrap wrote: How's the pattern on the scope?

Of course! The sweep pattern on the oscilloscope! Why didn't I think of that? Hang on for a second while I pull that out of my ass. :roll:

Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:51 pm

Runamoc has the best answer as to why you need the correct condenser.

Apparently, he's not as forgetful as he thinks. Pun intended.

Tim

Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:15 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote: Runamoc has the best answer as to why you need the correct condenser.

Apparently, he's not as forgetful as he thinks. Pun intended.

Tim

OK I get it now, & I appreciate the explanation--
but WHICH condenser is the correct one for my setup?
Just like with the SVDA vs DVDA canister (that I never really got an answer to either), the condenser is just the source for more conflicting info.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:38 pm

Quote: condenser is the correct one

The male disconnect for the points connection fits thru a hole. You either have a round hole or a square hole. A 009 has a square hole. I can't say all, but most stock factory ones use the round hole. Now a round hole condenser will fit in a square hole distributor. It doesn't make a good seal. (don't ask) Now if you have a stock Bosch blue coil, not the one made for electronic ignition the ohms are too low. Now my memory again, I think both of the condensers mentioned have 22 micro farads that will match the stock coil.

So really, any condenser made for an ACVW that has a stock Bosch blue coil will work. They just mount to the distributor differently.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:51 pm

runamoc wrote:
So really, any condenser made for an ACVW that has a stock Bosch blue coil will work. They just mount to the distributor differently.

I have a stock Bosch blue coil.
There are like 20 some odd different Bosch condensers made available for the different distributors in different type air cooled models over the years, ALL of which ran the same 12v Bosch blue (or black) coil. There must be SOME reason for it.
Tim makes reference in his post above to not using the correct condenser and having problems.
I find it VERY tough to believe in the end there is no difference in all these condensers aside from the way they fit onto the distributor. If that's the case, why didn't VW (Bosch) just make one single condenser for everything over the years?

Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:26 pm

Its all about mounting tab/ wire length etc etc the condenser it self is the same spec , of course quality can vary and quality of points/condensers have gone down hill.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:48 pm

Somewhere on here I have a post about my different distributers (about 15). I also have a very expensive dedicated capacitance tester. So one day when board, I started to test the different condensers (which are just capacitors). Well guess what, they were all the same values, plus or minus a couple microfarads. The main difference in the condensers are the mounting methods, and the lead wires. I have also purchased condensers that were bad from day one, and had others fail after very short time. Quality control has really taken a nose dive and it is very rare to find one made in Germany anymore.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:05 pm

OK thanks all- I appreciate the info.
Looks like I might be best off buying this one which I DO believe is a direct replacement for my AE distributor condenser (at least I know it's NOS):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-BOSCH-CONDENSER...mp;vxp=mtr

Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:50 pm

That one looks like it might be boxed wrong? looks like a round plug that fits up thru the bottom rather than a square hole in the side. You have a square hole in the side right?
the only differences in them is how they mount to the dist. and where the mounting tabs are.
Some poke thru the bottom round hole like 02-069,
Some like the 02-086 use the bracket that is part of the cond and holds the square plug in the side of dist. and 02-054 uses a separate bracket to hold the round plug in the side of the dist while the bracket on the cond usually is held on by the screw that holds the vacuum canister also to the dist.
Why don't you consider going electronic and do away with points and cond?

One example of differences

fixed :oops:

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:08 pm

A condenser and a capacitor are essentially the same thing. They are just two different names. Capacitors were called condensers earlier. The term "condenser" is still used in the automotive industry.
I would think it has to do with mounting type mostly. Had one go bad and took one from an old distributor. No issues. Must have been the same microfarads I guess.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:30 pm

Multi69s wrote: Somewhere on here I have a post about my different distributers (about 15). I also have a very expensive dedicated capacitance tester. So one day when board, I started to test the different condensers (which are just capacitors). Well guess what, they were all the same values, plus or minus a couple microfarads. The main difference in the condensers are the mounting methods, and the lead wires. I have also purchased condensers that were bad from day one, and had others fail after very short time. Quality control has really taken a nose dive and it is very rare to find one made in Germany anymore.

This is what I have always been told and now it's confirmed.

Thanks

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:34 pm

So you could technically make your own, probably cheaper than a Bosch and better quality.

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:58 pm

60ragtop wrote: You have a square hole in the side right?

No, I have the round hole in the side. So that one should work (and the part # matches the one in the Bosch tuneup chart for my AE distributor.)

The newer condenser (part # 02086) that I got in my tuneup kit a couple years ago had the square plug, another reason I was wondering about why it was listed as a direct replacement for all bug years (then I found out why--it's actually a replacement for the 009 distributors that vendors apparently think every VW has switched to by now. :roll: ) I was using it but I had to shave the sides of the square plug to get it to fit.