TheSamba.com :: View topic - PerTronix Flame-Thrower Type 1 Engine Distributors D186504

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:21 am

Hello,
I need to set the timing for this item and im missing the correct timing or the know how to do it. Does anybody knows?
This is for a 1975 camper 1800 engine with fuel injection system. I want to upgrade the distributor to electric and get rid of the old system, points. I also bought the pertronix coil that goes with it.
Please advise.
Thanks

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:17 pm

I'm sure a quick google search of "set pertronix distributor timing" and "how to replace vw ignition coil" would give you plenty of information on how to complete your task.

If you have 3 air cooled VWs I would recommend getting good at searching for answers before you ask them. You'll get them quicker and make Tcash a happy man.

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:23 pm

Used this one for awhile.

It works ok but with a couple of things to note...

Before you install it make sure to pull the pertronix and lube the advanc plate

The vacuum port is a slightly larger diameter than the stock 205*

When you go to time it, hoses off @ 28-30* at 3500 rpm dont be surprised if the idle timing is at the 10-13* mark. No matter what i did it would not return back near 7.5* and keep the proper timing at speed.

The mark on the dizzy rim for #1 is indexed wrong for a type 4 motor, you will be timing it with that mark wired to #2 and just have to reindex the rest of the wires on the cap.

Overall a descent piece and a good spare, but if you can find a good 205* much better to just add the pertronix to that

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:04 pm

You posted in the thread title- that distributor is suited for Type 1 engines. Your particular fuel injection system is setup for a certain timing setting at idle. The retard side of the stock distributor provides this; no aftermarket distributor does.

I do not think you will enjoy the driving experience with that engine and distributor combination. See if your vendor has a generous return policy before you install everything.

Robbie

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:03 pm

asiab3 wrote: You posted in the thread title- that distributor is suited for Type 1 engines. Your particular fuel injection system is setup for a certain timing setting at idle. The retard side of the stock distributor provides this; no aftermarket distributor does.

I do not think you will enjoy the driving experience with that engine and distributor combination. See if your vendor has a generous return policy before you install everything.

Robbie

Its a generic and sorta deceiving title. Its a generic replacement that will work just fine. Even AC.net sells the same one for all motors. I ran this on a 2.0 fuel injected T4. Like i said above, it works just fine and was basically drop in ready. Once i found a good used 205* i went back to stock. Compared to a real bosch the mechanical advance was only giving me about 16*, hence my hence my higher idle timing. But the car ran fine otherwise.

Since the T1 motor is so much more prevelant, that's why the mark on the dizzy body is scribed for, on the T4 motor the fan shroud is in the way if you index the mark to #1. Either gotta reindex the dog drive (risky and unnecessary) or just rotate 90* forward and move the wires back on the cap one position and go on with your life

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:50 pm

aerosurfer wrote: Its a generic and sorta deceiving title. Its a generic replacement that will work just fine.

I don't think it is either of those. Halfway through 1976 Volkswagen did away with the vacuum retard at idle. This necessitated a different throttle body and possibly a different AFM. If the AFM is the same, the base tuning would likely be completely different.

Your fuel injected 2.0L Type 4 engine is a great example of an engine that CAN use the Pertronix distributor, but the OP does not have the exact same induction system you do. The idle timing specifications between your buses differ 12.5*, so saying something will "work fine" is easy when it's not your money and bus on the table.

No Volkswagen engine that runs properly around 5*ATDC idle timing will run "just fine" when you bump the idle timing up to 8*ATDC. That is a HUGE influx in intake charge, intake vacuum, idle speed, and throttle response.

villafontana17, does your throttle body have one vacuum nipple or two near the throttle plate? If it has two, you might consider returning the new parts. If it has one, and you like the way it drives now, you can proceed with the installation. Here is a good article on how to install the distributor.

http://www.aircooled.net/how-to-install-009-vw-distributor/

Good luck,
Robbie

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:41 pm

I have an early '76 L-jet on my '72 411 with an 1800 and a 205p SVDA distributor. I have never had any problems with the way it idles or otherwise runs.

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:43 pm

Wildthings wrote: I have an early '76 L-jet on my '72 411 with an 1800 and a 205p SVDA distributor. I have never had any problems with the way it idles or otherwise runs.

Is it a single vacuum port throttle body or double vacuum port throttle body?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:04 pm

Perhaps we should see what the OP has in there right now?, if it's a Chinese 009 with misadjusted points odds are he will notice an improvement (even though it'll still be nowhere near as good as it can get).

Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:11 pm

Tcash wrote: The distributor should be lubed every 6K miles.
Lubing the Distributor

Tcash wrote: Finding True TDC

busdaddy wrote: When you finish adjusting the valves and have set the dwell read this before diving into the timing:

Here's the sermon :D (you'll want to ignore the type 1 stuff)

First you need to determine exactly where TDC is on your pulley and then set the timing at speed like this: Here's my timing for noobs rundown (keep in mind this assumes you have a degree wheel, timing scale or dial advance timing light and know where TDC really is, if you don't understand the marks on your type 1 pulley read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672&highlight=stock+pulley+marks ). Or if type 4 see this: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html

If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one that was connected to the nipple facing the distributor (retard {not you, that's what the hose does}). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb or throttle body (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb/FI adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment.

Tcash wrote: The timing really should be checked in three places:
Set at idle
Check Mechanical advance at specified rpm's hoses off and plugged
Check Vacuum advance pulling specified vacuum with a vacuum pump
Check Vacuum retard hose off and plugged

Tcash wrote: You need to determine which distributor you have by the part number on it and look up the specifications located in the Bentley.
Or here.
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm

As an example:
This is the specs for a Bus & Pickup Late 1976-1978 All States, 1979 Federal * 2000. Note the timing specs located at the bottom.

Timing specs.
Timing Set At:
7.5deg BTDC @ 850-950 rpm (Man Trans), 900-1000 rpm (Auto Trans) w/strobe, vacuum hose connected
Advance/Retard Range:
Vacuum: 8.5-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg
Centrifugal:
8-13deg @ 1600 rpm,
20.5-24.5 @ 3400 rpm

Type I timing scale.
jamesdagg wrote: Print, cut out and draw marks on your pulley where needed.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2cghs7c.jpg

Type I timing scale.
ashman40 wrote:
Print this diagram out at full scale. It should print out at 7" diameter.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/916242.jpg

Type IV timing scale.
LeeE wrote:
Homemade Type IV timing scale
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=237878.jpg

Properly aligned Type IV timing scale. Note how the 32* mark lines up with the fin on the fan housing.
the_benjamin_effect wrote: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7810248#7810248

Timing 68-70 113 905 205T

Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 pm

Thanks to all of your responses. There were both positive and negative responses. I went ahead and installed both of the parts in my bus and let me tell you those who told me that it would work just fine.....they were right. The bus starts right up and idles terrific. Gas consumption is also better. I tell you it worked and it is 100 times better than before. A lot of people told me to get rid of the FI system and to install a carburetor. My FI works perfectly in my bus and it is more efficient than the carb. Now, I will upgrade my guia and beetle as well with the Pertronix system. Thanks again to all of you......