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Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:49 pm

Question..

I've read here that Fluid Film was a great rust inhibitor for metal..

I've done some panel replacement and cleaned out all seam fillers and cleaned my Body seams fairly well.

I live in the North East so damp air and humidity rules our Rust world.

After doing the work I took a rag dampened with Fluid Film and ran the damp rag down the bear metal seams, and lightly wiped down the new raw metal panel after securing it.

After many months, All seams and even the panel look rust free with only a slight sign of some slight surface dust rust..

My question.
The Van will go to paint in a few days..
So-oooo what's the best way to clean the Fluid Film off of all surfaces.

I was going to use lacquer thinner to wipe down all seams, and the new metal several times. Maybe use some Prepsole too as a finial cleaner.

Good enough or what would you suggest?
I just don't want to miss any spots that would cause the new seam sealer or paint not to properly stick...

Thanks..

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:58 pm

Fluid Film recommends a hot water/soap cleansing followed up with the usual cleaning needed for a great paint job. One thing to remember is the creep factor, you have to get all the FF out of crevices or it will creep back out and spoil your paint job.
If you sprayed FF into open seams it will be a good idea to clean both sides of the folded metal. That means getting behind the panel and cleaning throughly.
I have used FF for a number of years. Recently did some repair painting and had good success with the paint after cleaning.

Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:25 pm

I sprayed some fluid film in the rear panel seams (from the inside before sealing the panels up) after the van was painted , the seams had been blasted out and seam sealer applied. The fluid film softened the seam sealer which caused the new paint to crack at the seam. I would only recommend it in seam applications on existing rusted seams that you do not plan to address any time soon. It's great under the van.

Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:37 pm

Three products that if sprayed into seams before bodywork, that will work against you....

1. Fluid Film
2. WD40
3. Silicone

All three hamper adhesion bigtime.

Sherwin Williams makes a product available from the automotive refinishing line called Sher-Wil-Clean, 3812 or lacquer thinner and other solvents like xylene will strip these 3 from the areas they have been sprayed.
All three of these solvents are nasty chemicals, so precautions must be used when handling them.

Fluid Film should not be used in or on seams if you plan to reseal and or repaint your vehicle.

Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:21 pm

insyncro wrote:
Fluid Film should not be used in or on seams if you plan to reseal and or repaint your vehicle.

Based on what? Problems you had? The stuff cleans off as long as you do a good job, it's not like silicone, it's only a natural wax. That's like saying you can never paint your car after you have waxed it.

Greebly- how long after the seams were sealed did you wait before spraying the seams with FF? Seam sealer takes time to fully cure, depending on the brand and type, up to a month.

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:04 am

3-M 8115 body panel adhesive used as seam sealer cures sandable, primerable, paintable in 12 hours.

I sure wouldn't introduce any sort of wax into a seam area that you were ever considering to refinish , ever.
Hell to get it completely outa there, not worth the application, & removal afterward.

Steam, 5000 psi presuure washer maybe will guarantee a squeaky clean surface to start the refinishing program.
But maybe not.
Only one way to find out.

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:57 am

There is a difference between paintable and cured. Something like paint which gives off it's volatile gases fairly quickly and something else which remains fluid/oily will effect a surface cure differently.
Many seam sealers are not recommended for interior areas because of the smell they give off before reaching full cure. Thats why I was curious what type of sealer Greebly used, perhaps it was not fully cured.

To each their own. I have used FF and then cleaned and painted/sealed over the same areas without any harm. Did I say it was easy, no. That is why I mentioned creep. Deep penetration is one reason FF works well. Like all painting projects, preparation is key.
As you can tell I like FF, it has saved my van from all the crap they use around here on the roads!

I will have to go back and check which sealer I used, don't remember right now this late at night! :lol:

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:20 am

MsTaboo wrote: insyncro wrote:
Fluid Film should not be used in or on seams if you plan to reseal and or repaint your vehicle.

Based on what? Problems you had? The stuff cleans off as long as you do a good job, it's not like silicone, it's only a natural wax. That's like saying you can never paint your car after you have waxed it.

Greebly- how long after the seams were sealed did you wait before spraying the seams with FF? Seam sealer takes time to fully cure, depending on the brand and type, up to a month.

FF is a fat not a wax.
Please read the MSDS.
If you feel good using it in seams and that you ha e removed it to do auto body work, go for it.
Ask any bodywork pro with over 10 years of experience about adding the three I listed before paint.....and how to wash them completely out....what did they say?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:50 am

When I worked New Car Dealerships back in the 1970's and 1980's, they had some "miracle" paint protector that they would apply and upsell on the cars. All units rolling off the truck got it and it was tacked on to the label along with floor mats, pin stripes and the like.

The Body men would go berserk over this stuff! Most often while the detail boy applied this wonder coating, he'd find (or create?) minor bidy flaws which had to be fixed.

Now the body shop had to walk on water miracles to get this crap off so the paint would stick!

As a result, I shy away from paint coatings and the like..... Yes, I'm even hesitant to wax my cars!

I know nothing about Fluid Film, it may be the greatest stuff since sliced bread, but it's not on my Van.

Dave

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:25 am

FF protects undercarriage parts well.

Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:01 am

MsTaboo wrote:

Greebly- how long after the seams were sealed did you wait before spraying the seams with FF? Seam sealer takes time to fully cure, depending on the brand and type, up to a month.
It was after a month. I wait to wax a vehicle after painting to allow cure and knew enough not to apply any fluid film prior to painting or silicone spray. I believe the seam sealer used was a 3M product. I would recommend against using fluid film in the seams given my results. I used cavity wax in the panels as well and have had no issues with it. That is what I would use in the future on the back side of the seams.

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:16 pm

FF will also make sleeved bushings squeak, so do not spray it directly on them if you have a suspension that doesnt make any noise.

Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:27 pm

insyncro wrote: MsTaboo wrote: insyncro wrote:
Fluid Film should not be used in or on seams if you plan to reseal and or repaint your vehicle.
Based on what? Problems you had? The stuff cleans off as long as you do a good job, it's not like silicone, it's only a natural wax. That's like saying you can never paint your car after you have waxed it.

FF is a fat not a wax.
Please read the MSDS.
If you feel good using it in seams and that you ha e removed it to do auto body work, go for it.
Ask any bodywork pro with over 10 years of experience about adding the three I listed before paint.....and how to wash them completely out....what did they say?

http://www.kellsportproducts.com/whatisfluidfilm.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanolin
http://www.kellsportproducts.com/aboutfluidfilm.html
http://www.fluid-film.com/products/properties.html

If you take the time to read you will see that FF is made from lanolin which in fact is a wax.
It also contains paraffinic petroleum which contain lots of wax.

http://www.fluid-film.com/downloads/SDS_NAS.pdf
http://www.lubegard.com/pdfs/what_is_the_difference_in_atf_base_stocks.pdf

If you read the info you will also see that the recommended cleaning before painting is hot water and soap.

I am surprised by Greebly's experience with softening of the sealer. There is mention in the data sheets about FF causing some swelling of certain non-oil resistant rubbers. I guess it will depend on the sealer. Up to you to research your sealer. Like I said, I didn't have any trouble. (so far :wink: )
Bottom line is, it works pretty good. Has saved my Syncro from the loads of salt and chemicals they use around here. Without it the van would never get driven in the winter.

Oh yeah, fyi, I have had auto body repair training, it's been years (30, :oops: gee I'm getting old!) since I worked in a body shop, but I'm not exactly a newbie.

Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:49 pm

Wool wax or wool fat, whatever floats your boat.

It hampers adhesion of modern day auto body products.

I would highly discourage anyone from spraying this before, during or after directly on the Vanagon seams if you want your hard work to last.
It will work even harder than water to find some way to wick through the seam.
One tiny opportunity for it to do so means that your products are no longer adhered in that area...next comes cracking, flaking, chipping and bubbles in paint.

Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:24 pm

insyncro wrote: ...It will work even harder than water to find some way to wick through the seam.

One tiny opportunity for it to do so means that your products are no longer adhered in that area...next comes cracking, flaking, chipping and bubbles in paint.

Been using it for years. I guess I'm doomed.

Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:38 pm

Hey, that's great, I'm glad it works for y'all, I love it for suspension parts and buy huge amounts of it to spray vehicles and equipment before storms here.

It has peeled up skim coats of filler and blistered 1k seam sealer on a few different vans I have seen.
I am speaking from experience and so are you Guys.

Let's call it a draw.
I am just warning those who are looking for a miracle in a can.
This stuff ain't it, IMO.

Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:22 pm

It's good for under your car and the back sides of panels. Don't know any reason to put it on a painted surface and doing so would attract a huge amount of debris. I spray the underside of my cars and my farm equipment with FF and it all has lots of debris stuck to the surface.

Hot water and dish soap to remove it.

We use something very similar in aircraft to inhibit corrosion in wheel wells and keel structures. Very similar process to remove.

Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:12 pm

FLUID FILM....
WoW

Ok, as mentioned at the beginning of this post I had the Brain Fart to rub down my ongoing raw sheet metal Body panels with a very light coating of Fluid Film..

I live in the Rust Prone N.E. where even things like new brake rotors will show signs of flash rust almost over night.. Really..

So after reading so many raves on here about Fluid Film thought How Do I stop my hard efforts from rusting while the continued and long term body repairs took place.

When I say I only gave the new metal a very light coat it was extremely light. And now after approx 6 months there is no rust on the seams or panels of the side that I put the Fluid Film coating on.

Now after reading what some of you say about Fluid Film on exposed paintable surfaces I've come to the realization that my Brain Fart of trying to preserve my work with a light wiped on coat of Fluid was actualy a great idea if I wanted a bear sheet metal Van that looked like it left the assembly line and skipped the paint booth.

So once I found that I may have screwed up, I have washed this Van a minimum of 4 times with water and industrial cleaner, the water was so hot that even wearing heavy rubber cloves was still Hot on the hands.

I also wiped all bear metal and seams down several times with Lacquer thinner. Also did several cleanings using PrepSol..

After all of this cleaning probably at lease 8-10 once sprayed with a garden hose I can still see the water bead up on those areas that I lightly coated with a cloth with some fluid film applied to it.

So today I did 3 more heavy washes. All using boiling water and heavies mixtures of industrial cleaner. Followed with another wipe down with Lacquer thinner, followed that up with another very Hot water Rinse.

Tomorrow the Van goes to paint and I'll be sure to warn the paint shop to prep the area's well.

Time will Tell if the Fluid Film shows it's self after paint. Keeping my toes crossed..

Lastly all I can say about Fluid Film is that It's truly amazing..

Wondering how well it will preserve the inside of my seams..

Also have another Van here that is just starting to show a slight seam rust on the lower Drivers Side Rocker. I realize that Rust comes from inside out, so how would Fluid Film work for that situation?

Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:17 pm

I too live in the NorthEast and understand the "flash rust" you speak of.

Ongoing Body work?
Epoxy Primer is your friend.

Prevents rust, easy to apply, easy to remove if need be.

Pick up a can of "Prepsol", a wax, silicone and grease remover. There are other brands but this one has been around for many decades, a proven product.

http://www.axaltacs.com/content/dam/NA/HQ/Public/Cromax/Documents/TDS/CX-TDS-3919S-Eng.pdf

Dave

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:17 am

Quote: After all of this cleaning probably at lease 8-10 once sprayed with a garden hose I can still see the water bead up on those areas that I lightly coated with a cloth with some fluid film applied to it.

I have experience the same and when this happens "inside" the seam, anything that is applied will be floating and not adhered as it would be if not FF was applied.

Since posting to this thread the first time, I have done a bunch of tests....the product Goof Off, that removes rubber cement and decals really well, seems to cut the FF the best...thus far.
Read the directions though...it is extremely flammable and has to be used in small areas or it will leave a haze.
Constantly wiping with a fresh towel also helps take the products off.
This entire process is very wasteful...you will see how many towels and chemicals will be needed if you want the area to not bead as described above.

Again, some have differing views and experience with the FF product.
I do not use the rattle can products now as I am an authorized sprayer of FF.
I have huge barrels of it and I spray it with the shutz gun provided by FF.
This way, no solvents are present like in the rattle can.
Yes, it works...really well :!:
Just be careful where you spray it is all I'm saying.

Also, I have three different FF products, the one being discussed here is the thinnest, the other two are much thicker and really don't come off at all.