TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:44 am

I'm in the process of installing the rear torsion bars. The drivers side went in ok using a lot of persuasion from a plastic mallet. The passenger side bar doesn't seem to be able to go in far enough. Is there stop in the center of the axel tube that stops the drivers side torsion bar from going in too far or could i have pushed it in to far so that there is not enough room for the passenger bar?

To fix the problem do i have to undo the drivers side, release the tension and try to even out the bars? i can only guess that the bar is not pushed far enough into the drivers sides spring plate.

Second question. When bolting in the spring plate hub cover it is off center? Mine is practically resting on the spring plate at the top.

Thanks for any advice

Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:35 pm

I don't think it can go over center on the axels, I did not have that problem.
but I to found the cover off center! here is what I did, got the spring plate
were I wanted, then put the cover on and started the 3 bolts. then loaded
the plates as soon as I could get the 4th bolt in, I started to tighten them up as I loaded the spring. seem to work ok. good luck, this is a pain in the a!!.

Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:24 pm

There is no "center stop".
With both bars out, you can see right through there.
A torsion bar can go in too far, and interfere with the second bar. In fact, if a torsion bar breaks, the inner end can be knocked out from the opposite side with a long steel rod if necessary.
I have always installed the cover (loosely) with longer than standard bolts before lifting the spring plate onto its perch. Then tighten the four cover bolts uniformly to draw it into position.

If you lift the spring plate onto its perch before attaching the cover, it can be very difficult to align the cover to even start the bolts.

Sometimes, you have to do this a couple of times to get the preload angle (ride height) where you want it, so keep a sense of humor.

This job is a pain, but stick with it and you will get it right.

Good luck, Mondshine

Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:05 am

mondshine wrote: If you lift the spring plate onto its perch before attaching the cover, it can be very difficult to align the cover to even start the bolts.

Utterly impossible is what I say.

Here's a question for the 181 experts. Are the torsion bars the same length as other Type 1s and 3s?
Are 181 bars the same diameter as Beetle? Same for military 181s?

Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:39 am

I just measured a set of Thing Shop (so called "better than new") torsion bars in my vast inventory.
They are 25.687" long.
The big (outer) spline is 1.416" in diameter.
The small (inner) spline is 1.296" in diameter.

The Thing Shop says "We made them tougher".

I have wondered what that means in terms of preload angle.
My Thing Shop reprint of the original 181 workshop manual includes specifications which have been "edited" (by them?) like this:

I have confirmed that this hand lettered edit is not unique to my workshop manual.

27 degrees is a lot more than the specification for any other ACVW I've ever seen, and I don't know it that figure refers to the stock torsion bars, or the "better than new - tougher" bars.
Soon, Ron & Dennis will be assembling a car with the Thing Shop torsion bars. I plan to hang onto my TTS bars until they report on the preload angle that they like.

Good luck, Mondshine

Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:51 am

mondshine wrote: The big (outer) spline is 1.416" in diameter.
The small (inner) spline is 1.296" in diameter.
The spline diameter is quite meaningless since they're all the same. It's the diameter between the splines that counts.
BTW, the convention is to use mm. Stock Beetle bars are 21mm

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:00 am

Thanks for the help. i took the hammer a bit more too it and it seems to be going in...although slowly. I spoke with the TTS about 27 degree setting from their workshop manuals. They indicated that setting is for stock bars.

Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:08 am

Has anyone used the 27 degree setting on their Thing? How was height and ride? I am getting ready to install Atomwerk plates. They questioned the 27 degree but didn't know for sure. When I asked Adam about it this what he said.
He wanted to know the rear weight then said,
Well that is quite a bit heavier that the bug! I can not tell you for certain without knowing the spring rate of the your 24 11/16" torsion bars, but if 27° is the mark that you guys are hitting and liking the look the I would choose 28.5° for the spring plates with the adjuster in the highest position - that's with the adjuster screw turned all of the way up. Does your manual happen to list spring rates?

What do you guys think. tom

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:13 pm

I have.

My '74 has the original torsion bars. When I bought the car, it was sitting low in the rear, and I had a VW shop re-index the bars so the car would sit level (I was too chicken to do it myself). The car sat nice and level.
That was 1983.
Fast forward to 2014 when I replaced some suspension parts including the rear torsion bar bushings. When the spring plates were released, I was shocked to find the preload angle at 27.5*; much more than the 22* or so that I expected having read the orange Bentley manual (for contemporary Beetles).
Anyway, I assumed that the guy who set the 27.5* preload angle, did so due to worn out torsion bars, so I replaced the bushings, reset the bars to 27.5*, and I promised myself to look at this again soon.
Then one day, I found a Thing Shop reprint of the 181 workshop manual at a swap meet.
I was amazed when I saw the hand written edit for the rear torsion bar preload angle (previously posted). It is the only "edit" like this in the entire book. The manual contains no information re: torsion bar spring rate.

So next Spring, when my car comes out of storage, I will try out my "better than new-tougher" Thing Shop torsion bars. I suppose I will start with 27* with no expectation of hitting the perfect ride height on the first pass.

Bruce- The diameter of the "better than new-tougher" Thing Shop torsion bars (including paint) measured .962" (or 24.43 mm). It's a pretty thick coat of paint on those things, so call it 24mm.

Good luck, Mondshine

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:57 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/viewtopic.php?p=7564094&highlight=#7564094

lets see if this works! If not...reference this forum posting

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:29 pm

I know this is an old thread, but I have been researching rear torsion bars. I just disassembled the rear suspension to send the car to paint and was wondering if I should replace the torsion bars. Do they wear out? How could I tell?

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:32 pm

Mostly you just need to replace the bushings and reindex the bars once every ten years or so.