TheSamba.com :: View topic - velleman electronic ignition kit.... interesting.

Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:24 pm

So I found this thing today in my web endeavors, after looking into different CDI devices... specifically winterburn and mexibeetle ignition coils. Anyway, thought it looks interesting. Anyone ever heard of this velleman kit before though? Not much of a gamble at 20 bucks. How do you guys think this would work in a beetle with stock distributor and Blue Bosh Coil?

http://www.amazon.com/Velleman-K2543-Electronic-Transistor-Ignition/dp/B007GP6EQ6

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:10 pm

It would do very well. Should run like a petronix but with more accurate timing. Says max current 4 amps so you'd need to run a stock or blue coil (3ohms)

There is also a booster made in austrialia, same thing but ready to run and has a little light on it which does something.

I use a ford TFI module to do the same thing. They run 30$ at the junkyard but are already assembled, handle 6 amps, and run any coil, and have auto-shutdown so you don't fry it listening to the radio. (which would be handy if I had a radio) :D

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:29 pm

I believe you can wire up an old Chrysler electronic ignition module or the more common Standard Motor Parts replacement and hook up lead no. 5 to the points. Chrysler ran a ballast resistor on its coils back then. You might be able to scrounge one of these water proof sealed modules and it will do the same thing as that velleman.

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:34 pm

http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/electronic.htm

Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:57 pm

Frank,
The Velleman kit is not a CDI, but rather a system similar to Pertronix with the exception that you trigger the transistor switch with the points instead of Hall effect. There is a huge difference between a Cdi and a Transistor Switch inductive ignition.
A fellow I've corresponded with quite often contacted me recently and told me that my advertising was false because he has tested some coils and the voltage rise times with Cdi were slightly slower and therefore Cdi was inferior to inductive systems in firing fouled spark plugs. So, I ran some tests of my own. He was half right. It turns out that 60 years of literature that show Cdi outperforms inductive for power and firing through fouled spark plugs was false. It turns out from my tests that even in the rare cases (only with transformer type ignition coils) where Cdi is two or three microseconds slower than when used inductively, that Cdi outperforms inductive systems by over ten to one. Example: When firing through a shunt resistance of 126 thousand ohms around a spark gap to simulate a fouled spark plug, with a modern transformer style coil, transistor switch could only muster about 300V at the spark gap with maximum coil current. My Cdi puts out 7,500V across the spark gap with the same coil and shunt. With canister style coils, the Cdi will put up 4000V to 5000V while in Kettering mode or with a transistor switching the current, about 500V is possible. (the condenser actually increases this slightly which is counter-intuitive) 500V is way too low to create a spark. The Cdi I'm making will put out more voltage when it matters even with an available voltage slightly less than the maximum Kettering system voltage. It's will also perform extremely well with even cheaply made coils (not much wire or iron in some of the new ones).
So, the fellow busted the myth of the voltage rise, but assumed incorrectly that it meant something other than it did. It turns out that Cdi is superior to firing fouled spark plugs because of sheer power, not a faster voltage rise per se. To compete, an inductive system requires hellishly high inductance, current, and available voltage, and even then doesn't come close. Modern cars get away with inductive systems because fuel delivery is so precise nowadays. Also, a Cdi can't be built for $20 anyway, even in kit form. Take care, Fred

Frank Bassman wrote: So I found this thing today in my web endeavors, after looking into different CDI devices... specifically winterburn and mexibeetle ignition coils. Anyway, thought it looks interesting. Anyone ever heard of this velleman kit before though? Not much of a gamble at 20 bucks. How do you guys think this would work in a beetle with stock distributor and Blue Bosh Coil?

http://www.amazon.com/Velleman-K2543-Electronic-Transistor-Ignition/dp/B007GP6EQ6

Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:54 pm

Wow, the amount of information is overwhelming. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do on the subject. Everyone's replies combined will have me reading online for hours. I only just started researching about ignition system types and all is still very fresh to me. Thanks to all for the wealth of knowledge. In regards to the valleman kit... I know know there are more practical alternatives out there.

Im curious about the ford tfi unit now... Im under the assumption that it is plug and play, meaning points gap stays the same, and wiring the cables is a non issue because a diagram that modok posted in the high mpg thread. Am I right so far?

Also, would I need any special spark plug cables to handle the stronger ignition power?

Finally and most importantly, in what different ford models could I expect to find the module if I were to scrounge around in a junkyard?

To tell you all the truth, it's more of an experiment for me to get this to work than anything else, and since the tfi option seems reasonably priced, the idea becomes even more appealing. Being able to revert back to kettering easily seems a plus as well!

Thanks for the input, will await more input!

Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:23 pm

It's fun to play with this stuff!

if you leave the condenser connected then I would add a 40 ohm resistor from ignition power to the points wire.
This the same way they do it with many systems including MSD. Running a bit of current through the points keeps them clean too. If you remove the condenser then it's not required.

There should be four types, distributor or remote mount, and normal and computer controlled dwell, so four combos.
Normal should be gray and CCD should be black, but the color codes got screwed up by the aftermarket so nobody knows.
I collected three black ones but only one is a CCD, and it works fine anyway. They all work, but the remote mount ones are best to find as you get the heat sink at no additional charge :wink:

THe CCD one your dwell is the same as points, so it does work, but you don't get the benefit of the variable dwell.

I tried a multitude of combinations and my favorite was a grey TFI module and ancient 2 ohm toyota canister coil.

Normal good quality ignition wires and rotor should be fine.

With some CDI systems the current is huge,and kills normal parts quick, so may need special wires and rotor with MSD, to avoid msd (mysterious spark disappearance)

Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:05 pm

Very good. I have a new goal now then. so any ford product from the late eighties to the mid nineties should be a good place to look for these pieces? Also, is it critical that the coil be around two ohms or could the bosh blue work with this? The rotor itself will work fine and not crap out despite having a resistance? And finally, plug gap. How large have you run successfully?

Thanks again for all tje information, this is quite intriguing!

Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:22 pm

The ford TFI coil is 0.6 ohms! So you can run a low resistance coil if you want to. It has current limiting, so IF you use a low resistance coil it allows the coil to charge up to 6 or 8 amps and then holds it there until it fires.
The main advantage of a super low resistance coil is it charges faster.

I found the extra low resistance coils were not needed since it is only a four cylinder. The 2 ohm coil had full charge up to 4500rpm, and the slow drop-off after that still left plenty of spark at higher rpms. 1.5 ohms is might be good too.

It will work with any coil, so you can try lots of them and find your favorite :D

I put a pair of them on a old motorcycle that had 6 ohm coils, worked great!

yep, late 80's early 90's. I got most of the remote mount ones from vans.

Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:27 pm

To the OP,
I have two of those kits. One was reserved as a backup unit/ tinkering toy. The installed unit was potted in regular old Devcon 2ton epoxy with the heatsink uncovered. It has been installed on my DD Ghia for a total of 116,000 ish miles at this point, with 3 different distributors. I modified the condensor by placing a spade connector in line, so I could plug the condensor back in, and eliminate the Velleman kit if it died on me.

results noted.
Pros,
stability. points are no longer used for high current, so there is no arcing, and therefore no pitting on the faces.

cons,
my own stupidity. If you get used to the points dwell, and clearance never changing, you forget to lube the rub block and it wears itself down.

notes:
The points spring last 50K miles or so before you start to see the RPM at which the points float come down into the 4500 rpm range due to the spring getting weaker.

conclusions:
Not much better, if any, than the stock setup, when the stock points system is correctly adjusted, but the Velleman kit allows it to always stay adjusted correctly.

I will be happy to answer any questions regarding it.

Rob

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:50 pm

early chrysler 4 cyl outboards had a cdi/coil unit that worked off points and later a ir light trigger. cost about $300 for a constant 30,000 vt system- made a 318 I had idle like a honda. might even run off pertronix--

I say this because every marina has a stack of these if they didn't go to scrap.

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:04 pm

the same page has the electrick supercharger too!!!!

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:09 pm

mark tucker wrote: the same page has the electrick supercharger too!!!!

I'd go more for this myself: https://www.amazon.com/4agegarage%C2%AE-Turbo-Soun...M4J32HQPHY

You'd at least get the cool sound to go with the absolutely zero increase in HP.