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Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:52 pm

This is for a 71 Ghia. I'm debating whether to either build or buy a turn key engine for this car. What are your opinions on pros and cons of either side?

And if you can recommend a builder that you have used for a 2180 180/200 hp street motor, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:09 pm

There is something to said for building it yourself and knowing the in/outs of your ride

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Jzsquared wrote: There is something to said for building it yourself and knowing the in/outs of your ride
not to say you cant but if this is your first stroker build i would let somebody else build it!!! 180/200 hp is no joke and you must know what you are doing. just my 2 pennies.

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Find somebody whos done it before and have them do it again.

200 Hp is semi-mythical thing, anybody who says this is easy is lying, everything has to be perfect.

Want to do it yourself then there is a lot to learn and ultimately might cost you more, but sometimes doing it yourself IS the point!

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:20 pm

Weather you buy it or build it depends on how much time you have and how much money you want to invest in tools.

Expect to pay $7k or more for a quality built turnkey engine with 180 HP. $8K for 200 HP

It took me 6 months to build my 175 HP 2276 with all the mock up, going back & forth to machine shop, and waiting on back ordered parts. I started with all the cash in hand to finish the engine.

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:29 pm

You could buy this with all the longblock parts you need and add your cabs and exhaust

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1186

brad

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:40 pm

You'll need to turn in excess of 7000 RPM to reach 200 HP with a 2180. High RPM engines cost $.

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:32 pm

Build a close ratio box first with all the goodies, then add 930 cvs and good axles. What money you have left over build your engine with. Trust me on this one...... :oops:

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:43 pm

Berg weld in mid mount, Kafer bar, steel trans mounts, shitty tires, no problem busting stuff.

brad

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:50 pm

if you even have to ask, go turn key by a shop who has experience explicitly with VWs

Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:36 am

First I'd like to say thanks for all that took the time to reply.

Jzsquared - Not saying I've never built a motor before and I agree about knowing the ins and outs but I've never built a transmition and I've never felt like I was missing anything.

gprudenciop - I can do it and I like doing it, what I'm debating is the time it will take to get it together versus getting the same thing in a couple of weeks in a crate. It's taken so long to get to this point...

modok - That was my initial thought "Find somebody who’s done it before and have them do it again" if I’m going to have someone else build it.

vwracerdave - Gratefully short of machining I have tools to do whatever I need. It's taken me two years to rebuild this car from a bare bone pan. I'm just debating if I want to spend another 6 months waiting for mock ups and Fed Ex.

slalombuggy - I've seen those kits but I get a little queasy about kit motors because I would end up paying for a pile of unused parts that I will end up swapping out.

Bugguy1967 - I see where you are going but I want an engine capable of getting out of its own way but I don’t plan on spinning the crank out the side of it.

MURZI - Got that covered. The only thing stock is 99% of the tunnel and the body. :)

slalombuggy - Except for the shitty tires and busting stuff I got that covered too :)

Brian - I'm asking because I learned a long time ago that I'm not an expert on everything and I will never experience or see everything but getting advice here cuts a lot of corners and saves a lot of sweat.

What I'm really having an issue with is time. I don't need it in a week but I don't want to spend 6 to 8 months gathering bits and pieces and trucking parts back and forth to a machine shop. I guess I'm leaning towards a long block and the rest is bolt on so I can get though that in short time.

My fear is if I don't build it will I get the parts I want. I don't want to second guess a builder's choice and I don't want chrome but if I want a straight cut cam gear I should get one. That being said how hard is it to find a builder to provide a long block with some components I choose?

Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:25 am

Doing 180 is difficult, 200hp has its own formula combo. They are not impossible however for anyone to accomplish. 6 months of mock up although exaggerated is not realistic. With a combo, it will be quick. Cant skimp on any parts. This one will have to have top shelf components.
Besides the trans , brakes, and suspension needed for this, i would suggest a ext oil cooler and fan along with the std type 1 oil cooler set up. A dynamic calculator will be your friend and should be consulted. Why? Because youll be in high 10cr+ range and will have to use a cam with about 310- or more duration to allow the high duration. This is also 86c, fk10, or slr310 etc territory. Youll also need to keep the deck tight, quench pad surface decent, and cut the head cc down in the low 50s or high 40s. Heads will have to be a 44mm valved wedgeport comparable design or superpros from CB. Engine size will adjust these fine details a little but not much.This will not be a cheap engine but certainly doable. Cb lightwieghts, good springs, and tit retainers are a good add ons. I would skip a 2180 and do a 2332. My take.

Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:49 am

jfats808 I agree with everything you mentioned except I've been told fitting a 2332 in a Ghia is a PITA because of the width.., Could be I don't know I've never stuffed one in a Ghia.

As for the suspension, it's not off the shelf, it's been reinforced and narrowed by 3 inches front and rear. The pan squats to two inches off the floor in the rear and I can lay the front sway bar on the ground.

The axles are getting cut shorter as the shortest I could find were still an inch too long. :cry:

I am just getting anxious to get this rolling and get all the "bugs" out of it. :lol:

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:48 am

Get a long block 2332, the other bits are easy to do. You just have to have the right bits.

Buy your carbs or fi setup first, then have the manifolds machined to match your ported heads.

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:10 am

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Aircooled-Net-82mm-Stroker-VW-Long-Block-p/82-stroker-long-block.htm

or

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Aircooled-Net-84mm-Stroker-VW-Long-Block-p/84-stroker-long-block.htm

For those power levels, you need L7 or L8 heads, though it can be done with L6s also (barely). You'll also need 1.4 rockers, you can't do it with 1.1s nor 1.25s.

Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:28 pm

Brian, I'm contemplating your 2332 after looking at the price difference.
Port matching the manifolds I can do here 8)

John,

1. So the difference between these two engines is $100?
2. Also I noticed that the site says the 2332 is "a direct bolt in" for a 71 Ghia. I thought that the 2332 was much wider and there would be issues getting it to fit?
3. Are those available with straight gears?

Dual Port 82mm Stroker VW Engine Long Block,
82mm Counterweighted Crankshaft,
Type 1, 2180cc
Rocker Arm Ratio:1.1 VW Style
Engine Type:Type 1 Dual Port, Upright Engine
Cylinder Heads :L6 Heads, 42 x 37.5mm
Flywheel Weight:10lb Flywheel
Magnesium or Aluminum Engine Case:Aluminum
Oiling System:Full Flow Oiling System for Type 1 DP Upright
Engine Size:2180cc (92mm Bore x 82mm Stroke)

Dual Port 84mm Stroker VW Engine Long Block,
84mm Counterweighted Crankshaft,
Type 1, 2332cc
Rocker Arm Ratio:1.1 VW Style
Engine Type:Type 1 Dual Port,
Upright Engine
Cylinder Heads :L6 Heads, 42 x 37.5mm
Flywheel Weight:10lb Flywheel
Magnesium or Aluminum Engine Case:Aluminum
Oiling System:Full Flow Oiling System for Type 1 DP Upright
Engine Size:2332cc (94mm Bore x 84mm Stroke)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:30 pm

I enjoy doing things the hard way and bumbling my way through learning everything I can. If you want a challenge, willing to dump all kinds of money into it, probably break things along the way, then build it yourself! The emotional roller coaster of starting it up the first time is quite a thrill.

If you want it now and want it to just work, then buy from someone like ACN.

Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:51 pm

theDrew wrote: I enjoy doing things the hard way and bumbling my way through learning everything I can. If you want a challenge, willing to dump all kinds of money into it, probably break things along the way, then build it yourself! The emotional roller coaster of starting it up the first time is quite a thrill.

If you want it now and want it to just work, then buy from someone like ACN.

I'm over the "thrill" of the uphill challenge, been there done that. Whether you or I torque a connecting rod bolt I could care less as long as it's right the first time.

Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:27 pm

SoCalJes wrote:
I'm over the "thrill" of the uphill challenge, been there done that. Whether you or I torque a connecting rod bolt I could care less as long as it's right the first time.

sounds like you just answered your own poll

Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:31 pm

so...call jesus!!! unless your forcing the charge in I doubt you will see those numbers. but by all means build it your self.